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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 1:39 pm
(February 21, 2017 at 12:46 pm)hyperchord24 Wrote: I hope this is the right place to post this and I wonder if the subject has been broached before. What could God do to prove his existence?
Everyone runs around saying, I can't see him, so sorry. If you asked a christian, they'd say the bible proves his existence. Forget that. What sort of things would he have to do to prove it. Show his face from the heavens? Flood the earth? End all suffering? What could make you change your mind?
Any being worthy of the title 'God' would know what would convince me. And unless he/she/it/they want to purposely want to remain hidden, would provide such.
But to start with, I would require demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid/sound logic to support the claim that a god exists. Without these, what else would I use to justify belief?
As far as what that would look like, I can't say. Many times in science, the evidence that is convincing to demonstrate a claim, is not predictable before it is discovered.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 1:49 pm
Show me something that directly contradicts naturalism (i.e. something that cannot possibly be explained by natural causes and is inherently supernatural) and I'll change my mind.
So far any "miracle" that exists has a rational explanation if you investigate it in enough detail.
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 1:58 pm
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2017 at 2:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@OP
I reckon "god" would know, even if I didn't. To be blunt, it's trivially easy for any being to demonstrate their existence to me. The world around me is chock full of them. From ants to dogs to people. Nothing could change my mind about christer god, however, short of an exhaustive personal refutation by said christer god of everything christers tell us about him.
The reason that I'm not a christian has very little to do with whether or not a god exists. Sure, it's the icing on a hilarious cake...but if the christian god were to show up at my door tonight for dinner...I'd be no more christian then than I was the moment before.
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 1:59 pm
Atheists list on a regular basis what would convince them. A simple google search will yield tons of results.
So the real question is:
What would change the mind of a believer?
From what I've been told in the past by believers... Nothing. Ever.
In fact, in the debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham, they were both asked that question, and Ham answered “nothing” and Nye said “evidence”.
So who has the closed mind?
If god was real he wouldn't need middle men to explain his wants or do his bidding.
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 2:10 pm
(February 21, 2017 at 12:46 pm)hyperchord24 Wrote: What could make you change your mind?
A psychosis briefly changed my mind, but then again, I was sick and had a distorted worldview.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 2:12 pm
(January 27, 2017 at 4:28 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: The greatest answer I have ever seen on the "What would change your mind?" or "what if you're wrong?" question regarding God's existence:
Matt Dilahunty Wrote:The "What would change your mind" question came up again in e-mail. I've provided an answer many times, but the following version might be worth thinking about:
"I don't know what would change my mind, and I don't need to know. In fact, it would be arrogant for me to presume that I could even come up with an answer, because that presumes that I'm sufficiently knowledgeable that I can tell the difference between 'a vastly superior technology that is beyond my understanding' and 'the powers of a god'.
But, if there is a god, that god should know exactly what it would take to change my mind...and that god should be capable of doing whatever it would take. The fact that this hasn't happened can only mean one of two things:
1. No such god exists.
2. Whatever god exists doesn't care to convince me, at this time.
In either case, it's not my problem and there's nothing I can do about it. Meanwhile, all of those believers who think that there is a god who does want me to know that he exists - are clearly, obviously, undeniably... wrong."
From his Facebook. Fucking awesome as fuck, IMO.
What do you guys think? 
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 2:25 pm
(February 21, 2017 at 12:46 pm)hyperchord24 Wrote: I hope this is the right place to post this and I wonder if the subject has been broached before. What could God do to prove his existence? Everyone runs around saying, I can't see him, so sorry. If you asked a christian, they'd say the bible proves his existence. Forget that. What sort of things would he have to do to prove it. Show his face from the heavens? Flood the earth? End all suffering? What could make you change your mind?
First properly define what god is.
All I've ever seen are fatuous and vague descriptions and no two exactly alike, even by people from the same faiths.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 2:37 pm
If you want the Abrahamic deity I'd need archaeological corroboration on key figures; eg. Moses and Solomon.
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 2:42 pm
A personal appearance and a scientifically verifiable miracle would be a good start.
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RE: What would change your mind?
February 21, 2017 at 2:53 pm
(February 21, 2017 at 2:37 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: If you want the Abrahamic deity I'd need archaeological corroboration on key figures; eg. Moses and Solomon.
That's a pretty low bar.
Even if the human characters in the OT actually existed, how in the world would that provide any evidence for the existence of Yahweh, and all his magical powers?
I don't see the connection.
There's pretty good evidence that at least some of the characters in Homer's Iliad and Odyssey existed (Mycenaean, Hittite and other geological evidence seem to corroborate at least some). Does that lead to credence that Zeus existed?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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