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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 5:12 am
lol you atheists! You don't understand so much because by killing them they were sending them to Jesus and how can that be bad? In fact it's much better then living without him.
Take Jews for instance. Jews were hounded from one land to another. One pope gave them a month to quit their homes in Italy, leaving them only two places of refuge. During the Crusades, they were slaughtered in the thousands, out of devotion to Christ. A Jew who showed his nose on Good Friday was virtually committing suicide, even though the man on the cross had a Jewish nose.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 6:02 am
(April 15, 2017 at 5:12 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: lol you atheists! You don't understand so much because by killing them they were sending them to Jesus and how can that be bad? In fact it's much better then living without him.
Take Jews for instance. Jews were hounded from one land to another. One pope gave them a month to quit their homes in Italy, leaving them only two places of refuge. During the Crusades, they were slaughtered in the thousands, out of devotion to Christ. A Jew who showed his nose on Good Friday was virtually committing suicide, even though the man on the cross had a Jewish nose.
I get your tone (and I like it  ), but I actually heard a sermon given by Ian Paisley in which his told his lunatic Free Presbyterian followers that it wasn't a sin to kill Catholics, because they would then be face-to-face with Jesus who would point out the error of their ways and give them a chance to repent.
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 11:27 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 11:34 am by Mystic.)
(April 14, 2017 at 6:29 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Whoever said God is three, is a non-believer by the Quran mentioning it explicitly?
Sura 5, Page 120, The Quran:
(73) Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no Ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God -Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.
?
Catholics believe in the trinity?
Why do you lie and tell them "you're people of the book...my brothers and sisters..."?
More verses against Christianity:
Sura 5, Page 110, The Quran:
(17) Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) . Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
Why do you keep telling Christians that they are believers, while your own holy book says that they are in desbelief?
The world changed; MK.
The people of the book are almost non-existent. Catholic Crusades sent them to their graves long ago. Most Christians see Jesus as God, or the Son of God that completes God being a piece of him. Some pretty harsh verses in the Quran were directed against this kind of faith.
So if a child says God is three, he is a disbeliever?
The verse itself is generalizing the people of the book of that time and place, and suratal Bayana shows they would not be separated until their came to them the clear proof which was the Messenger reciting them the signs of God....
Why does the verse say "the disbelievers from them", it's to show it's generalizing that most of those who say God is three or Jesus is God in that region, now have been reminded and know better, because as Suratal Bayana clarifies:
The division is when a clear proof comes and they cannot be divided from the believers without clear proof.
And the clear proof is not a book, but a Messenger who teaches the book, and so at this time, when the final leader of humanity, the proof of God is hidden, and the book is taught stupidly and dumbly by the supposed believers of the book..... excuse me for not judging people to disbelieve in the clear proof (which is hidden).
And to acknowledge that it is hidden, read Suratal Raad, which talks about the sign with respect to Mohammad being one who can only warn while there is a Guide for every people and another verse saying "the hiding (of the sign) is for God, so wait, we too are waiting" meaning, most of the world even during Mohammad time didn't have the clear proof.
Until the clear proof is manifest to the whole world, I will not judge people to be disbelievers, neither Christians neither Atheists neither Hindus....
Lastly, the Quran predicts all Jews and Christians will believe in Jesus before his death, so don't give this crap that they are not people of the book any longer.
(April 14, 2017 at 11:32 pm)Aroura Wrote: You hate people who don't "care" for God. That's good to know though, thanks for showing your true colors.
I do, as I explained though, this doesn't mean being without belief in God, but really not caring at all to know whether he exists or doesn't or being apathetic towards clear proofs of his existence after it's been manifested.
(April 14, 2017 at 6:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ummm, so anyway....
How was Easter?
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 12:23 pm
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 12:41 pm by WinterHold.)
(April 15, 2017 at 11:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: So if a child says God is three, he is a disbeliever?
The verse itself is generalizing the people of the book of that time and place, and suratal Bayana shows they would not be separated until their came to them the clear proof which was the Messenger reciting them the signs of God....
Why does the verse say "the disbelievers from them", it's to show it's generalizing that most of those who say God is three or Jesus is God in that region, now have been reminded and know better, because as Suratal Bayana clarifies:
The division is when a clear proof comes and they cannot be divided from the believers without clear proof.
And the clear proof is not a book, but a Messenger who teaches the book, and so at this time, when the final leader of humanity, the proof of God is hidden, and the book is taught stupidly and dumbly by the supposed believers of the book..... excuse me for not judging people to disbelieve in the clear proof (which is hidden).
And to acknowledge that it is hidden, read Suratal Raad, which talks about the sign with respect to Mohammad being one who can only warn while there is a Guide for every people and another verse saying "the hiding (of the sign) is for God, so wait, we too are waiting" meaning, most of the world even during Mohammad time didn't have the clear proof.
Until the clear proof is manifest to the whole world, I will not judge people to be disbelievers, neither Christians neither Atheists neither Hindus....
Lastly, the Quran predicts all Jews and Christians will believe in Jesus before his death, so don't give this crap that they are not people of the book any longer. In this world; there are two types of speech:
1-Bullshit
2-Straight to the point
Bullshit usually takes a long time to explain; while straight to the point is straight to the point!
Let me give you an example. Hustlers use bullshit to distract you from a certain point, which is your bag or wallet, then rob the shit out of you.
So don't be a hustler; please.
-The point: In Islam, whoever says Jesus is God, is a disbeliever, according to this verse:
Quote:https://atheistforums.org/thread-48601-p...pid1541224
Sura 5, Page 110, The Quran:
(17) Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) . Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
Answer to this verse.
Respect the mind of the readers.
Don't hustle. You suck at it.
See a psychologist.
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 12:43 pm
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 12:44 pm by Mystic.)
Since there are many ways to see the verse, we have to see what other verses clarify.
Suratal Bayana clarifies disbelief and faith division occurs through clear proof which at that time was a Messenger reciting them the clear signs. Through out Quran it's emphasized his family will succeed him in that role except they would not be Prophets but rather Leaders, Captians, Guides, Helpers, and Witnesses.
And Suratal Nisa clarifies those without the power and means to acknowledge the clear proof maybe forgiven.
The "Sign" being hidden from most of humanity is also clarified in Quran.... so I am waiting when the clear proof is manifest, till then, I won't judge people as disbelievers.
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 1:50 pm
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 1:53 pm by WinterHold.)
(April 15, 2017 at 12:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Since there are many ways to see the verse, we have to see what other verses clarify.
Suratal Bayana clarifies disbelief and faith division occurs through clear proof which at that time was a Messenger reciting them the clear signs. Through out Quran it's emphasized his family will succeed him in that role except they would not be Prophets but rather Leaders, Captians, Guides, Helpers, and Witnesses.
And Suratal Nisa clarifies those without the power and means to acknowledge the clear proof maybe forgiven.
The "Sign" being hidden from most of humanity is also clarified in Quran.... so I am waiting when the clear proof is manifest, till then, I won't judge people as disbelievers.
So:
Quote:https://atheistforums.org/thread-48601-p...pid1541224
Sura 5, Page 110, The Quran:
(17) Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) . Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
No debates.
1-Answer to this verse.
2-Respect the minds of the readers.
3-Don't hustle. You suck at it.
4-See a psychologist.
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 1:59 pm
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 2:03 pm by Mystic.)
Region/time context - generalization of the people with those beliefs, that the proof had become manifest to them - among them is the argument posed in the verse. They knew very well that God is Independent by which all things depend on (As-Samad) and hence cannot be begotten nor beget himself and understood the various arguments for Tawheed as well as Mohammad's Prophethood. Since the trinity had dependency on part of the holy spirit and Jesus, it's saying, what would happen if God were to destroy them and all that is in the universe. The truth is God would still exist, and hence, whatever is dependent cannot be said to be the Independent Creator. This verse is emphasizing on one of the reasoning they were aware of but were ignoring.
There was repeated arguments reminding of Tawheed, and the truth was clarified to them, and they knew very well the truth. They were not only irrational for denying Mohammad, but the Quran showed, they weren't even accepting the clearest reminders in Quran which was towards Tawheed.
However as I said, the Quran shows polytheists and people of the book only become distinct and divided from believers when the clear proof comes to them. The clear proof was at that time a Messenger who recites them the signs.
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 2:29 pm
(April 15, 2017 at 1:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Region/time context - generalization of the people with those beliefs, that the proof had become manifest to them - among them is the argument posed in the verse. They knew very well that God is Independent by which all things depend on (As-Samad) and hence cannot be begotten nor beget himself and understood the various arguments for Tawheed as well as Mohammad's Prophethood. Since the trinity had dependency on part of the holy spirit and Jesus, it's saying, what would happen if God were to destroy them and all that is in the universe. The truth is God would still exist, and hence, whatever is dependent cannot be said to be the Independent Creator. This verse is emphasizing on one of the reasoning they were aware of but were ignoring.
There was repeated arguments reminding of Tawheed, and the truth was clarified to them, and they knew very well the truth. They were not only irrational for denying Mohammad, but the Quran showed, they weren't even accepting the clearest reminders in Quran which was towards Tawheed.
However as I said, the Quran shows polytheists and people of the book only become distinct and divided from believers when the clear proof comes to them. The clear proof was at that time a Messenger who recites them the signs.
So:
Quote: Wrote:https://atheistforums.org/thread-48601-p...pid1541224
Sura 5, Page 110, The Quran:
(17) Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) . Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
No debates.
1-Answer to this verse.
2-Respect the minds of the readers.
3-Don't hustle. You suck at it.
4-See a psychologist.
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 3:07 pm
(April 15, 2017 at 11:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: (April 14, 2017 at 6:29 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Whoever said God is three, is a non-believer by the Quran mentioning it explicitly?
Sura 5, Page 120, The Quran:
(73) Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no Ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God -Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.
?
Catholics believe in the trinity?
Why do you lie and tell them "you're people of the book...my brothers and sisters..."?
More verses against Christianity:
Sura 5, Page 110, The Quran:
(17) Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary) . Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things.
Why do you keep telling Christians that they are believers, while your own holy book says that they are in desbelief?
The world changed; MK.
The people of the book are almost non-existent. Catholic Crusades sent them to their graves long ago. Most Christians see Jesus as God, or the Son of God that completes God being a piece of him. Some pretty harsh verses in the Quran were directed against this kind of faith.
So if a child says God is three, he is a disbeliever?
The verse itself is generalizing the people of the book of that time and place, and suratal Bayana shows they would not be separated until their came to them the clear proof which was the Messenger reciting them the signs of God....
Why does the verse say "the disbelievers from them", it's to show it's generalizing that most of those who say God is three or Jesus is God in that region, now have been reminded and know better, because as Suratal Bayana clarifies:
The division is when a clear proof comes and they cannot be divided from the believers without clear proof.
And the clear proof is not a book, but a Messenger who teaches the book, and so at this time, when the final leader of humanity, the proof of God is hidden, and the book is taught stupidly and dumbly by the supposed believers of the book..... excuse me for not judging people to disbelieve in the clear proof (which is hidden).
And to acknowledge that it is hidden, read Suratal Raad, which talks about the sign with respect to Mohammad being one who can only warn while there is a Guide for every people and another verse saying "the hiding (of the sign) is for God, so wait, we too are waiting" meaning, most of the world even during Mohammad time didn't have the clear proof.
Until the clear proof is manifest to the whole world, I will not judge people to be disbelievers, neither Christians neither Atheists neither Hindus....
Lastly, the Quran predicts all Jews and Christians will believe in Jesus before his death, so don't give this crap that they are not people of the book any longer.
(April 14, 2017 at 11:32 pm)Aroura Wrote: You hate people who don't "care" for God. That's good to know though, thanks for showing your true colors.
I do, as I explained though, this doesn't mean being without belief in God, but really not caring at all to know whether he exists or doesn't or being apathetic towards clear proofs of his existence after it's been manifested.
(April 14, 2017 at 6:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ummm, so anyway....
How was Easter?
Easter is actually tomorrow (Sunday). 
Yesterday was Good Friday, which is a day when we remember the crucifixion of Jesus.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Happy Easter!
April 15, 2017 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 4:05 pm by Mystic.)
lol, I know nothing.
Good Friday and Easter I always thought were synonyms.
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