Need a list

[Sami]

Don't forget to add everybody who ever existed before 400AD, and everybody who has existed since then who wasn't born and raised in christian territory.

We're talking hundreds of billions of people now...

There hasn't even been hundreds of billions of humans in the history of earth and the vast majority have lived in the last 50-100 years.

[Rev. Rye]

My grandfather(who is very religious. Christian, to be specific), upon finding out I'm an atheist, gave me a short list of people who "believed in God", trying to prove a point, I guess.
By "short", I mean there are only three items on the list, but only two I'd like to address on here:
-All the [US] presidents
-Every great leader

He's wrong on these two points. The awesome list that was posted on page 1 is an excellent source.

Either way, I think you should focus on making your grandfather understand that being religious does not make you great.

I'd also like to warn you that your grandfather will more than likely never change his mind on the subject. He may occasionally just jab at the subject forever. You won't change his mind. The best you can do is change his outlook on the subject matter and remind him that you're his grandson, and still his grandson, despite whatever you choose to believe, or not believe.

I certainly wouldn't count on him changing his mind. My mom's less strict than him and I know she wouldn't. But, you're right, I should make it a point in at least trying to make him understand.

By the way, I'm his grandDAUGHTER. I guess I never realised Diamond was a guy's name! XD

This guy might disagree with you:


And just for the record: on internet forums, everyone is considered male unless proven otherwise. Sexist or not, it's what a lot of guys on the internet will end up assuming.

[everythingafter]

What I would like is a little help creating my own little list of these kind of people who were atheists, irreligious, freethinkers, etc. because I know for a fact that he's exaggerating.

Additionally, if you wish to tell me of any not-so-great, or infamous leaders who did believe in a higher power, I would love to know.

The third one, if you must know, is the Indians(Native Americans), but in addition it says "believed in the great white spirit". However, if you would like to give any further information regarding this, no one's stopping you.

Wait, your Christian grandfather gave the Native Americans as an example of people who believe in God? He might as well have mentioned Hinduism.

Here's some off the top of my head:
Charles Darwin - former orthodox Christian turned agnostic.
Thomas Jefferson - Deist
Abraham Lincoln - Possible Deist, to my knowledge never pronounced faith in Christ.
Ben Franklin - Believed in God, but rejected Christianity, notions of heaven and hell, etc.
Thomas Paine - Deist. Would probably be an atheist if he had read Darwin.
George Washington - Probably a deist who talked a lot about the divine hand or will, but scantily, if ever about Christianity.
JFK - Catholic.
FDR - Episcopalian
Obama - Christian, but not stupidly so.
Bush 1 and 2 - Stupidly so.

In short, most past and present leaders in this country are going to admit a higher power in some form or another because they simply can't get elected if they don't at least pretend to give lip service to a deity. Now, I can name all kinds of modern and past thinkers who were atheists or agnostics but given your grandfathers scant three examples here, I doubt he would have heard of any of them.

[Rev. Rye]

Wait, your Christian grandfather gave the Native Americans as an example of people who believe in God? He might as well have mentioned Hinduism.

Yes, and their belief in the Great Spirit did absolutely nothing to keep the white man from taking their lands, committing genocide on them, or putting everyone else on reservations.

Abraham Lincoln - Possible Deist, to my knowledge never pronounced faith in Christ.

Well, from what I've read of him, it's probably more accurate to state that he was a Christian who refused to belong to any church essentially because he thought any Christian creed beyond "love thy neighbor" was unnecessarily complicated.
To quote the man himself:

"I have found difficulty, without mental reservation, in giving my assent to their long and complicated confessions of faith. When any church will inscribe over its altar the Saviour's condensed statement of law and Gospel 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and will all thy mind, and love thy neighbor as thyself,' that church will I join with all my heart."

George Washington - Probably a deist who talked a lot about the divine hand or will, but scantily, if ever about Christianity.

Well, technically he was an Episcopalian, but other than that, your description was pretty accurate.

Well, I'm surprised you didn't mention one example of a religious US President who wasn't stupid about it; Theodore Roosevelt. He actually once wrote an open letter explaining why he thought the words "In God We Trust" shouldn't appear on legal tender: he thought it was an offense to God to put it on something as trivial as money.

[everythingafter]

Well, I'm surprised you didn't mention one example of a religious US President who wasn't stupid about it; Theodore Roosevelt. He actually once wrote an open letter explaining why he thought the words "In God We Trust" shouldn't appear on legal tender: he thought it was an offense to God to put it on something as trivial as money.

Well played. Hadn't thought of that one. My point on Lincoln and Washington and others was that I don't believe we can look at them as devout in quite the way that Christians today might attempt to label them as such.

[Diamond]

This guy might disagree with you:


And just for the record: on internet forums, everyone is considered male unless proven otherwise. Sexist or not, it's what a lot of guys on the internet will end up assuming.

I'm not offended or anything. I've just never really heard of any guy named Diamond. Their first name anyway...

[parrotpirate]

Here's a list of various celebrities, authors, etc. that I found a while back.
http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Main_Page