Processing our mortality

[Fireball]

(Wasn't sure if I should put this here or in the Atheism section.)

I think I am one of the few atheists here who still struggles with mortality, and with the concept of impermanence in general.  I've heard the analogies about parties and movies: 'you can still enjoy the [fill in the blank] even though you know it's going to end.'  And, I've heard Hitchens' bittersweet adaptation: 'the party is going to continue, but I have to leave.'  It's all about the experience.  But, I find no solace in these.  

They're decent analogies but they ultimately fail me, because when you leave a party you get to go home; you get to call your mom, watch Netflix, reminisce about it with your husband, and remember how much fun you had (or didn't have).  In these analogies there is still an experience after the experience.  There is still a frame of reference; an internal narrative.

Why should mortality bother me so much?  It seems like most of you guys here have adjusted fine to the idea.  Why can't I?  I think my existential crisis is this: The end of my conscious experience is completely indistinguishable from never having had that experience at all.  The very moment "I" cease to exist, it will literally be as though "I" never existed in the first place.  From "my" POV it will be like time snapping backwards.  It's the ultimate dissolution.  So, why be bothered at all?

I know, I know...once I'm dead I won't know or care about any of this so it's silly to perseverate on it now, but sometimes I feel  like I've been stuck in one of the five stages of grief for years, and I can't get past it.  

So, now you guys tell me to quit being a whiny, depressing, emo-baby and make some dick jokes so I can come back to my sense, okay?  [HEAVY BLACK HEART]️

Have you talked to your Ob/Gyn about post-partum depression? Nice, pink, ! Get the proper help!

[ignoramus]

I used to think about death and stuff.
Since coming here, you meatbags have convinced me of one undeniable fact.
We cherish and enjoy what we do in this life BECAUSE it will end.

We can't have our cake and eat it too.
Some theists here are so selfish that they need to enjoy life's precious moments for eternity.
Sorry guys, that concept defies all logic and meaning.

[Aroura]

I understand your struggle. Everything you said is something that I've also thought about. Sometimesit is nearly the first thought I have upon waking, and I have difficulty not dwelling on it all day.

It seems meaningless to point out that we have an impact. Yes, our children, should we have any, will remember us. And perhaps grandchildren or even great grandchildren. And then what? Eventually, the ripples that you make are so small and far away....and really, really eventually, in the longest run, this planet will be eaten by the sun, perhaps humans will never get off it. Then what is the point?
So I get it, I really do. I too struggle with finding any meaning when consciousness is finite.

At the same time, there isn't anything you can do about it. The only answer I've come up with after years of this struggle is that if it doesn't matter, then the meaninglessness is also meaningless, if you catch my drift. We exist NOW, and may as well have as good existence as we can, and help others do the same.

I try and view the utter meaninglessness as a complete blank slate. A white piece of paper I get to draw on. Of course, then I think the paper will be destroyed also, or perhaps does not even exist at all, so I come full circle. The mental struggle with this nihilistic idea is never ending for me.
Living in the now is the ONLY answer that works. Asking the question is as meaningless as everything else, so try and stop doing it if it is causing you suffering. I recommend looking into DBT, radical acceptance, and mindfullness. These things have allowed me to at least move forward, though they do not answer the question of meaninglessness.

If you ever need to talk to someone about your feelings about meaninglessness, please feel free to PM me. ~hugs~

[Seraphina]

I used to think about death and stuff.
Since coming here, you meatbags have convinced me of one undeniable fact.
We cherish and enjoy what we do in this life BECAUSE it will end.

We can't have our cake and eat it too.
Some theists here are so selfish that they need to enjoy life's precious moments for eternity.
Sorry guys, that concept defies all logic and meaning.

That's some crazy-looking haiku, ignoramus.

-Teresa

[ignoramus]

You're born
You die
They mourn
Goodbye

[surreptitious57]

I approach the question of death from a purely practical perspective namely that it is inevitable so worrying about it is just a waste of mental energy. I see no objective meaning to existence
at all but this is for me a neutral position rather than a negative one because it allows me to give subjective meaning to my own existence if I so choose. The problem with applying meaning
in any objective sense is that it begs the question by assuming such a thing exists. The randomness which allowed life to develop is evidence that it does not. I accept this unconditionally so
I do not think we are in any way special. We are just biological organisms with a finite life span just the same as any other. Death is merely the consequence of that. Furthermore everything
eventually dies. Planets. Stars. Galaxies. It is therefore no big deal and should not be treated as something that is for it is simply a transition from one state to another. We only think it a big
deal because we are afraid of it. But like with any irrational fear once it is rationalised the fear no longer exists. The dead never worry about being dead any way. And nor should anyone else

[brewer]

Keep pooping out kids. That's the only way I know of to be immortal in some fashion. 

Is keeping memory of yourself or your name immortal? Easy solution, whack someone notable. Worked for the Pilate guy.

So, a dick walks into a vagina and says, ....................... yea, I got nothing.

[Whateverist]

I'd like to second Arouca's suggestion about mindfulness. Also please feel free to PM me too if you'd like to talk about it off the grid. If it is any comfort you have me as a buffer between yourself and the cliff. Most of the bastards I'd counted on as buffer have long since taken the leap.

You never know when stuff that gives you comfort will just depress someone else. Some of it is probably just a matter of disposition. But death days -when a relative or close friend have died or are getting buried,etc- have always been days which have felt the most real to me. I mean most of the time we just go about our to-do lists and favorite pass times pretty mindlessly, on autopilot. But on a death day I have the this-is-it feeling; I mindfully eat the slice of cake that is this day accepting that the cake won't last forever. In some ways I have more dread of living life distracted from its reality than I do of it actually ending.

Death days are not catastrophes which have happened to someone else. They're just as natural and inevitable as can be. I like to remind people who are dying that we are all standing on the at bat circle, that I don't feel separate from what they are going through. But like Woody Allen I've always thought about mortality for as long as I can remember as a kid. Unlike Woody Allen I do want to be there when it happens. Just noticed how cool it would be to be called "Woody".

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

LFC....
Why worry so much? You're thinking too much. When you think too much you worry too much. You know, we're all going to kick the bucket one way or the other, one day or the other. So what can we do? hmmmm. You know, I'm not the old & wise type you'd find around these parts in fact I'm convinced I'm of the young & dumb variety :p but what do what do gots to look out for the sis LFC yeah?
My suggestion? Hmm. Actually let me give my diagnosis first haha. what "I" think is you're a lovely lovely person that loves your loved ones and you wondered one day "whatll happen when "I" kick the bucket?" "what;ll hapepn to THEM" "Will they remember me?" "I don wonna leave em"

YOU. NEED. HUGS.

Somebody give her some hugs ffs. You know what? I extend my digital arm through this (really fucking heavy) laptop and give you a squishy squishy hug(you dont like it but whatr u gona do eh).

YOkay. So. My point is we're all kicking the bucket one day what're we gonna do? We're gonna enjoy our time here, we're gonna cherish the times spend together with people we LOVE and we hope genuine(if at all any) tears are shed in our funeral. We're going to leave the world a better place, have experiences that'll make us feel good for being alive. You know, you don't want to regret NOT doing something at least once(just don't skydive without a parachute). Do something dumb, make people happy, and you know..be amazing...

Last but not the least....(drum roll anyone?) why would you worry about death when every breath we take, every second we live, we're heading towards our death...like every second we're living we're getting one step closer to our grave...you know what they say... the biggest cause of death is life ....the game is rigged sis..so are you going to let the game play you or play the game before it plays you Just be the chunk of awesomeness everybody knows you are and you'll be fiiiiine, i knowww you'll be.

[LadyForCamus]

I think it's perfectly normal that the idea of mortality is very hard to grasp. After all, the sense of self is literally connected to 100% of the world view-- "tree" is a composite of your experiences of tree as a human being. "Love" is a word that you've mapped to your own sensations. Trying to understand a world without the self is like trying to understand a Universe without space and time-- it boggles the brain. In a sense, I think you aren't coming up only against the specific idea of a Universe without you, but the unfathomable paradox of existence-vs-non-existence at all.

At least in my case, I get the terrors when I try to think why there IS anything rather than nothing-- I can't see how anything has arisen-- where did it come from? Where did THAT come from? It feels to me that it shouldn't have-- there should be nothing. Sometimes I'm so convinced of that that I doubt if I myself an an illusion, but still-- how is it that there is something capable of experiencing that illusion? It's boggling in its infinity, but somehow, philosophically, it seems like existence is a mistake-- that it is a fragile thing, a tiny accidental blip, and that I have to hang on to that thread, because there might be nothing else, ever, or even an ever in which something might exist, if I let it go.

I don't know if that makes sense or not-- I don't just feel I'm scared of dying. I'm scared of existence itself disappearing at some point.

It did; thank you. You explained my angst better than I did. It IS that broader paradox that frightens me. It's not so much about a world, or an earth without me (as people have graciously, and correctly reminded me that my memory will live on in those I've loved), but this notion that crossing from existence into non-existence, from the experiencer's POV is indiscernible from not ever having experienced existence in the first place. Some day I will not even have been a blip on my own radar, because there will be no radar. The utter intangibility of it is...as you said, mind boggling.

Sometimes I feel that not only is existence a mistake, but that consciousness itself is an evolutionary abomination. How cruel is a trait (is it incorrect to call consciousness a trait?) that gives us, and only us the ability to comprehend and consider the cessation of our very existence? Or the ability to ponder existence at all?

---

Why should mortality bother me so much?  It seems like most of you guys here have adjusted fine to the idea.  Why can't I?  I think my existential crisis is this: The end of my conscious experience is completely indistinguishable from never having had that experience at all.  The very moment "I" cease to exist, it will literally be as though "I" never existed in the first place.  From "my" POV it will be like time snapping backwards.  It's the ultimate dissolution.  So, why be bothered at all?

I know, I know...once I'm dead I won't know or care about any of this so it's silly to perseverate on it now, but sometimes I feel  like I've been stuck in one of the five stages of grief for years, and I can't get past it.  

Hey LfC -
Bold is mine-
Everything ok?

That's not even true in my opinion. You have kids and "you" will live on through them. Or anything else you create that lasts in a meaningful way.
Hell, when I play a Bach tune, there he is - on my violin, on youtube and many other places. He bit the dust almost 300 years ago but he lives on through what he created.

Sure, I believe that when I die I won't live on after death. But I don't think about that too much in my daily life. Only when I'm feeling down, which is why I asked if you're ok.

-Teresa

Thanks Teresa. [emoji846] I'm okay. I've noticed that I cycle up and down through this issue. In a few days I'll be mortified I made this thread at all. You're right about my kids though. And if nothing else, they keep me busy enough to have trouble finding time to worry about this crap most of the time. [emoji41]

---

Stop being a whiny emo baby...this thread is 3 dick jokes shy of quota.  Not just any dick jokes, epic dick jokes...that people will tell stories about.   

^^^ Thank you. This is why I love you guys. [emoji1]

Personally, the point of it all, for me, is to build a foundation for a house that can hold and feed and provide for generations of my family. That way, when I'm dead...no matter how much shit my descendants talk about me..they'll be doing so from the comfort of what I left them. Go ahead, talk shit about me on the boat I built. Talk shit about me while you sit at my hearth. Talk shit about me under my roof, eating my food on my land with my children. I won;t be there to give a fuck, but everyhting I leave behind will be giving fucks left right and center. It'll be giving all the fucks, Katie.

That's a lot of fucking for a dead guy. [emoji6]. Perhaps you're right though; maybe there is no solace to be had here; only acceptance. Maybe I need a hobby or something. I imagine early humans didn't have much time
to stew in philosophy, seeing as most of their time on earth was spent trying to live to see the next day.

---

(Wasn't sure if I should put this here or in the Atheism section.)

I think I am one of the few atheists here who still struggles with mortality, and with the concept of impermanence in general.  I've heard the analogies about parties and movies: 'you can still enjoy the [fill in the blank] even though you know it's going to end.'  And, I've heard Hitchens' bittersweet adaptation: 'the party is going to continue, but I have to leave.'  It's all about the experience.  But, I find no solace in these.  

They're decent analogies but they ultimately fail me, because when you leave a party you get to go home; you get to call your mom, watch Netflix, reminisce about it with your husband, and remember how much fun you had (or didn't have).  In these analogies there is still an experience after the experience.  There is still a frame of reference; an internal narrative.

Why should mortality bother me so much?  It seems like most of you guys here have adjusted fine to the idea.  Why can't I?  I think my existential crisis is this: The end of my conscious experience is completely indistinguishable from never having had that experience at all.  The very moment "I" cease to exist, it will literally be as though "I" never existed in the first place.  From "my" POV it will be like time snapping backwards.  It's the ultimate dissolution.  So, why be bothered at all?

I know, I know...once I'm dead I won't know or care about any of this so it's silly to perseverate on it now, but sometimes I feel  like I've been stuck in one of the five stages of grief for years, and I can't get past it.  

So, now you guys tell me to quit being a whiny, depressing, emo-baby and make some dick jokes so I can come back to my sense, okay?  [HEAVY BLACK HEART]️

Have you talked to your Ob/Gyn about post-partum depression? Nice, pink, ! Get the proper help!

In all seriousness though, I do think five months of chronic sleep deprivation (little one is STILL getting up 2-3 times per night to eat) is starting to mess with my head a bit. Maybe that's why this crap is rearing its ugly head again. Steel said a little crushed Ambien along the gum line should do the trick. What do you think? [emoji13]

---

Here's a dick joke.




Now lighten up.

Thanks, love! [emoji16]