Posts: 28284
Threads: 522
Joined: June 16, 2015
Reputation:
90
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 3:53 pm
(July 26, 2017 at 2:46 pm)SteveII Wrote: [edit]
First point. Of course someone being supernaturally healed or rising from the dead is an improbable claim. However, the improbability of this event could be counter-balanced by examining the evidence and simply asking the question: what is the probability of this evidence being present had a miracle not occurred? As this probability number goes down, the probability of the event having a supernatural cause goes up. Notice that there is no requirement that the evidence be 'extraordinary'.
[edit]
My improbable claim is that an apparent super natural being, (named super man oddly enough) exists and can fly. People (not me) claim to have seen it and have written books about it. What is the probability of this evidence being present had this flight not occurred?
The probability is low which means that a supernatural event cause for the claim is high. Notice that there is no requirement that the evidence be extraordinary. Do you believe it without additional evidence?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Posts: 2435
Threads: 21
Joined: May 5, 2017
Reputation:
26
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 3:55 pm
(July 26, 2017 at 2:46 pm)SteveII Wrote: ...Uncommon or rare things happen every day...
Indeed they do, but this in no way relates to your question.
Putrefying corpses being reanimated is not an 'improbable' claim; it's a ridiculous claim.
Hitchens' Razor - "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
The bible is the claim, not evidence.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 3:57 pm
baYes
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 3:59 pm
(July 26, 2017 at 3:00 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Bayesian reasoning. You use it for literally everything but your religious beliefs (drops mic).
And that is exactly what I was referring to in my probability discussion. You are stopping at one side of the probability calculus--just the probability of seeing miracle R|B over the probability of seeing not-R|B (the middle of the equation). You have to also assess the probability of E|R&B over the probability of seeing E|not-R&B.
![[Image: 8-18.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.reasonablefaith.org%2Fimages%2Fpodcasts%2Fdef_badge%2F8-18.jpg)
R = Resurrection
B = Background information (the supernatural exists)
E = Evidence
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 4:01 pm
Why should be extraordinary for you, that I don't believe a vaguely discribed as powerful thinguie that you call a god?
Posts: 118
Threads: 1
Joined: September 24, 2015
Reputation:
3
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 4:05 pm
(July 26, 2017 at 2:46 pm)SteveII Wrote: If you go with the BS that atheists make no claims, then I would make the more modest point that atheist's 'extraordinary' assessment of NT claims are unfounded.
I call BS to your preemptive BS, just because you said it first doesn't make it true.
I'm sitting here, browsing this forum and I reading your comment and you say the NT is true. Have I made a claim yet?
I say ok what is the evidence, and all you offer is poor evidence so I don't believe you. Again where is the claim?
If water rots the soles of your boots, what does it do to your intestines?
Posts: 882
Threads: 6
Joined: November 14, 2014
Reputation:
26
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 4:08 pm
(July 26, 2017 at 3:59 pm)SteveII Wrote: (July 26, 2017 at 3:00 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Bayesian reasoning. You use it for literally everything but your religious beliefs (drops mic).
And that is exactly what I was referring to in my probability discussion. You are stopping at one side of the probability calculus--just the probability of seeing miracle R|B over the probability of seeing not-R|B (the middle of the equation). You have to also assess the probability of E|R&B over the probability of seeing E|not-R&B.
R = Resurrection
B = Background information (the supernatural exists)
E = Evidence
Plug Mohammed's night flight in and see what you get.
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 4:13 pm
(July 26, 2017 at 3:53 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: (July 26, 2017 at 2:46 pm)SteveII Wrote: [edit]
First point. Of course someone being supernaturally healed or rising from the dead is an improbable claim. However, the improbability of this event could be counter-balanced by examining the evidence and simply asking the question: what is the probability of this evidence being present had a miracle not occurred? As this probability number goes down, the probability of the event having a supernatural cause goes up. Notice that there is no requirement that the evidence be 'extraordinary'.
[edit]
My improbable claim is that an apparent super natural being, (named super man oddly enough) exists and can fly. People (not me) claim to have seen it and have written books about it. What is the probability of this evidence being present had this flight not occurred?
The probability is low which means that a supernatural event cause for the claim is high. Notice that there is no requirement that the evidence be extraordinary. Do you believe it without additional evidence?
Your analogy (and everyone else's about Santa or unicorns or whatever) is lacking for the sole reason you made it up. There is no evidence to weigh or consider alternative explanations. It is totally irrelevant and makes no point.
Posts: 9856
Threads: 21
Joined: September 8, 2015
Reputation:
79
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 4:17 pm
(This post was last modified: July 26, 2017 at 4:18 pm by Fireball.)
(July 26, 2017 at 4:13 pm)SteveII Wrote: (July 26, 2017 at 3:53 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: My improbable claim is that an apparent super natural being, (named super man oddly enough) exists and can fly. People (not me) claim to have seen it and have written books about it. What is the probability of this evidence being present had this flight not occurred?
The probability is low which means that a supernatural event cause for the claim is high. Notice that there is no requirement that the evidence be extraordinary. Do you believe it without additional evidence?
Your analogy (and everyone else's about Santa or unicorns or whatever) is lacking for the sole reason you made it up. There is no evidence to weigh or consider alternative explanations. It is totally irrelevant and makes no point.
 Bolding mine. Just because someone made it up before you were born doesn't make it true.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?
July 26, 2017 at 4:17 pm
(July 26, 2017 at 3:46 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Verifiable evidence, please. Multiple witnesses, photo and video for a start. Proof, or it didn't happen. We need to eradicate the snake-oil salesmen from our society.
What ancient event is verifiable?
|
