Better terminology for "Father and Son" ?

[Astreja]

He is real and you should be concerned. If you spent as much time on looking for God as you do denying Him you might find out He's real.

I do not believe you.  I believe that you are worshipping a figment of your own imagination, which is the only place one can actually find gods.

God communicates to use through the soul and if you do not listen it's your loss.

What you're calling "the soul" is almost certainly just a mixture of emotion and imagination.

You are in extreme danger, you want everything to be physical and God is spirit and deals with us in spiritual ways.

 
I see no danger whatsoever.  "Spiritual" is just a fancy term for "imaginary."

Just because you can't understand what I know for fact is true doesn't make me crazy. Because you do not accept it doesn't make you uninformed.

You have an utterly warped idea of what "fact" and "true" actually means.  You may not be clinically insane, but I wouldn't trust you with anything important because of the way you've muddled up fact and fantasy.

I'm by choice ensnared in God's love and reality. Good I'm glad you will engage in conversation even if it is negative. That way those who just visit here and never join can see both sides and make their own decisions.

And how do you think that's going?  For all you or I can really know, you could be turning people away from your beliefs rather than converting them.

again I know the truth and I've studied sciences that deal with the flood and evolution, I know more than you might think. I told the truth about Egyptian history, to bad you're not up to date on the history of ancient Egypt. There is evidence of a global flood, there are even stories of a global flood by peoples who aren't even connected with each other when those stories were written.

Did you go to a Bible college rather than a real university, perchance?  I know of no legitimate geological evidence for a global flood, but I've heard all manner of ridiculous apologetics.  There literally is not enough water on this planet to flood it to the summit of Mount Everest.  (I do hope that you don't believe that the world is only 6000 years old, either, because that's utter nonsense.)

He created one because He is omnipresent, knowing there would be the need for it because justice would be served. God has said He desires no one to enter eternal torment, that doesn't mean He can stop it, you have the free choice to choose. If you are in hell you will not be able to help anyone, you want ever see anyone, the place is in darkness and you will be to busy creating your own torment, but not all of it because even though you want see anyone else you will be able to hear the agony they are causing themselves.

Just a grossly abusive scare tactic used by evangelists to prey on vulnerable people.  Shameful, shameful behaviour.

You want to know about God and hell, then go to Him and find out. Hell is as real as a traffic accident, besides I was referring to you blaming God for those who will be there, how do you even conceive such when God refuses to make the choice for them.

That's like asking me to go visit Batman.  Seriously.

If people cannot choose to voluntarily walk out of hell and your god refuses to aid them, it is eternally 100% responsible for their pain.

How is it you can't see that the scriptures given to us by God shows that the people will choose their own eternal destiny, probably because you listen to the uneducated who believe they know everything about the Bible. It' for sure you have never taken the time to find out on your own, you've admitted to that.

I read the Bible 53 years ago.  I was not impressed.  A book supposedly inspired by a god should be better than that -- a lot better.  The Bible is clearly the work of comparatively uncultured, unscientific and morally underdeveloped people, not the work of an omniscient being.

I will have a new body that will never die, get sick, hunger, have pain or anything we might call discomfort, that's be promised to me. Yes one prayer is all it took, because I had answered God's call.

I predict that you will never get that new body and that your ashes will just get recycled into the ecosystem.

Unfortunately if  you do not change the darkness will be your's and you will be surrounded by those who are there and never be able to interact with them in any way, the screams of their own self inflicted torment will be your's forever.

Once again, I hold you personally responsible for uttering threats in an attempt to frighten me into debasing my ethics and acquiescing to a proxy human sacrifice.  I think it would be an appropriate punishment for you to have recurring nightmares of your own family and friends trapped in hell, screaming piteously, while your god sits on its throne and ignores your tearful plea for mercy.

[The Grand Nudger]

Tearful pleas of mercy?  Ha, not from GC.  He'd be watching in exuberant glee, praising the goodness of the lord all the way - just like it says in magic book.

[Harry Nevis]

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Really!? I said that?  Where?

I would say we roundly disagree.  There is no salvation, because there is no sin, because there is no Jesus, because your god doesn't exist.

Every time you complain about us being here. God says only a fool would deny sin and He meant on many different levels. You place a hope in those things you posted above, because you know if Christians are right hell awaits those who refuse to believe.

---

Weren't you the one who said he never lies on this forum?  You just did.

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 You have not seen me lie to you or anyone else here.
GC

Then show us your testable evidence for god.  You said you have it.

 I've never said I have testable evidence.

GC

---

Another lie.  You said you had it, but we wouldn't accept it.

[Godscreated]

He is real and you should be concerned. If you spent as much time on looking for God as you do denying Him you might find out He's real.

I do not believe you.  I believe that you are worshipping a figment of your own imagination, which is the only place one can actually find gods.

Your belief doesn't mean much, the reality is God exists and is worthy of worship.

God communicates to use through the soul and if you do not listen it's your loss.

What you're calling "the soul" is almost certainly just a mixture of emotion and imagination.

Almost certainty means you do not know, I do because my soul communicates with God.

You are in extreme danger, you want everything to be physical and God is spirit and deals with us in spiritual ways.

 

I see no danger whatsoever.  "Spiritual" is just a fancy term for "imaginary."

Just because you're blind to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Unfortunately many didn't see the danger in Harvey and they had previous warning, too. are you saying that the atheist that have spiritual encounters with nature are just imagining they had some sort of experience? If yes I agree.

Just because you can't understand what I know for fact is true doesn't make me crazy. Because you do not accept it doesn't make you uninformed.

 

You have an utterly warped idea of what "fact" and "true" actually means.  You may not be clinically insane, but I wouldn't trust you with anything important because of the way you've muddled up fact and fantasy.

I fully understand facts and truth, they are a part of my daily life. I've been trusted by others with important things and they have come back and asked me to do others and that's all that really matters to me.

I'm by choice ensnared in God's love and reality. Good I'm glad you will engage in conversation even if it is negative. That way those who just visit here and never join can see both sides and make their own decisions.

And how do you think that's going?  For all you or I can really know, you could be turning people away from your beliefs rather than converting them.

I'm not trying to convert them that job belongs to God. I give out the of God's word and then it's up to them. It's not for me to know the results of God's work through me, the important thing is He does His work and I'm blessed to be chosen by the creator of the universe to be involved.

again I know the truth and I've studied sciences that deal with the flood and evolution, I know more than you might think. I told the truth about Egyptian history, to bad you're not up to date on the history of ancient Egypt. There is evidence of a global flood, there are even stories of a global flood by peoples who aren't even connected with each other when those stories were written.

Did you go to a Bible college rather than a real university, perchance?  I know of no legitimate geological evidence for a global flood, but I've heard all manner of ridiculous apologetics.  There literally is not enough water on this planet to flood it to the summit of Mount Everest.  (I do hope that you don't believe that the world is only 6000 years old, either, because that's utter nonsense.)

Bible colleges are institutions of higher learning. Some even teach evolution and that is unfortunate and I do not support them. As for my education it has come from many sources including evolution based teaching, knowing both sides gives me choices and educated ones at that.

Answer/question to the above bold by me.
Have you taken the time to study what you call "ridiculous apologetics," I've taken the time to at the least expose myself to the evolutionary arguments and geological teaching of why there was no flood?
There are mountains covered by the ocean that are higher than Everest. The Bible even tells us that Pangea existed at the time of the flood and that there was only one ocean. Pangea split apart because of the flood and thus the higher mountains were then formed and the waters receded into the great valleys that were formed by this up rising of land. All that water is still with us today, no magic was needed to get rid of it, just the awesome power of our God. 

I do believe in a young earth, it could be a little older than 6000 years but not a great deal.

He created one because He is omnipresent, knowing there would be the need for it because justice would be served. God has said He desires no one to enter eternal torment, that doesn't mean He can stop it, you have the free choice to choose. If you are in hell you will not be able to help anyone, you want ever see anyone, the place is in darkness and you will be to busy creating your own torment, but not all of it because even though you want see anyone else you will be able to hear the agony they are causing themselves.

Just a grossly abusive scare tactic used by evangelists to prey on vulnerable people.  Shameful, shameful behaviour.

I didn't know you were vulnerable, sorry to scare you. I bring up hell and it's horror when it enters the conversation and I would be dishonest not to inform others of what I know.

You want to know about God and hell, then go to Him and find out. Hell is as real as a traffic accident, besides I was referring to you blaming God for those who will be there, how do you even conceive such when God refuses to make the choice for them.

That's like asking me to go visit Batman.  Seriously.

If people cannot choose to voluntarily walk out of hell and your god refuses to aid them, it is eternally 100% responsible for their pain.

No it's not, God is real and your disbelief can not change that. "Jail break" that's illegal. "Aiding and abetting" that's illegal.

How is it you can't see that the scriptures given to us by God shows that the people will choose their own eternal destiny, probably because you listen to the uneducated who believe they know everything about the Bible. It' for sure you have never taken the time to find out on your own, you've admitted to that.

I read the Bible 53 years ago.  I was not impressed.  A book supposedly inspired by a god should be better than that -- a lot better.  The Bible is clearly the work of comparatively uncultured, unscientific and morally underdeveloped people, not the work of an omniscient being.

Really, much of the law today is based from the book you think is worthless. You avoided the question though, instead you allude things people were not capable of being all humans (scientific). They were as cultured for their time as we are for ours, if this world last long enough you and I will be referred to in the future as uncultured. Their morals were just fine, most of them define the better part of today's society.

I will have a new body that will never die, get sick, hunger, have pain or anything we might call discomfort, that's be promised to me. Yes one prayer is all it took, because I had answered God's call.

I predict that you will never get that new body and that your ashes will just get recycled into the ecosystem.

You will be wrong.

Unfortunately if  you do not change the darkness will be your's and you will be surrounded by those who are there and never be able to interact with them in any way, the screams of their own self inflicted torment will be your's forever.

Once again, I hold you personally responsible for uttering threats in an attempt to frighten me into debasing my ethics and acquiescing to a proxy human sacrifice.  I think it would be an appropriate punishment for you to have recurring nightmares of your own family and friends trapped in hell, screaming piteously, while your god sits on its throne and ignores your tearful plea for mercy.

 I'm telling you the facts, you can see them anyway you want and you can hold me responsible till the end of time, it changes nothing. What is to come is as real as we are. I'm trying to help you to avoid this hell and then you wish such on me, shame on you. Besides I have a wonderful Christian family that will be in heaven with me. I mean only good for you, by the way have a wonderful weekend.

GC

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Every time you complain about us being here. God says only a fool would deny sin and He meant on many different levels. You place a hope in those things you posted above, because you know if Christians are right hell awaits those who refuse to believe.

---

Weren't you the one who said he never lies on this forum?  You just did.

Sorry sonny, you're wrong, what I stated above is the absolute truth.

---

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 I've never said I have testable evidence.

GC

---

Another lie.  You said you had it, but we wouldn't accept it.

 I said I tested it and you wouldn't accept what I know and that is true. Do you enjoy being wrong so much, that would bother me to no end?

GC

[Astreja]

Your belief doesn't mean much, the reality is God exists and is worthy of worship.

Unsupported assertion.  No evidence for your god, and even if it did exist I wouldn't worship the blighter.

Almost certainty means you do not know, I do because my soul communicates with God.

One nonexistent thing cannot communicate with another nonexistent thing.
 

Are you saying that the atheist that have spiritual encounters with nature are just imagining they had some sort of experience?

No; what I'm saying is that that kind of experience is generated by the physical brain, with no connection to anything supernatural.

I fully understand facts and truth, they are a part of my daily life. I've been trusted by others with important things and they have come back and asked me to do others and that's all that really matters to me.

Yet you consistently drop the ball when talking about your imaginary friend, spouting all manner of silly things that bear no relation to reality.  That phenomenon is known as "compartmentalization."  Perhaps others trust you.  I do not.

I'm not trying to convert them that job belongs to God. I give out the of God's word and then it's up to them. It's not for me to know the results of God's work through me, the important thing is He does His work and I'm blessed to be chosen by the creator of the universe to be involved.

I believe that you chose yourself for that mission.

Bible colleges are institutions of higher learning.

Yet your purported knowledge of science falls far short of what I knew in grade 8, and is but a smudge on the floor compared to what I know 46 years later.  

You seem to have been taught to simply reject anything that disagrees with the Bible, which is no education at all.

Have you taken the time to study what you call "ridiculous apologetics"?

I've given them the time they deserve -- which is very, very little.

I do believe in a young earth, it could be a little older than 6000 years but not a great deal.

I believe that the earth is close to 5 billion years old, and this is borne out by radiometric dating of very old rocks.  In fact, if you put me in a geology lab and gave me a mass spectrometer, a rock crusher and a morning's worth of instruction, I could probably duplicate those experiments in the afternoon.  Can you say the same?

I didn't know you were vulnerable, sorry to scare you. I bring up hell and it's horror when it enters the conversation and I would be dishonest not to inform others of what I know.

No, I'm not the vulnerable one.  I'm doing this to protect people who are vulnerable.  It is one of my wishes that frightening children with tales of hellfire is one day treated as a felony, with jail time for anyone convicted of the crime.

You do come across as insufferably rude when you "warn" us of hell.  Suffice to say you will never get invited to any parties at my place, as my guests deserve better entertainment.

God is real and your disbelief can not change that. "Jail break" that's illegal. "Aiding and abetting" that's illegal.

False imprisonment is also illegal, as is torture.

Really, much of the law today is based from the book you think is worthless.

Nothing in, say, the Canadian criminal code prohibits adultery, or worship of graven images, or disrespecting one's parents, or coveting the neighbour's car, or eating bacon, or working on the Sabbath; neither is there any obligation in secular law for women to make offerings at a synagogue after their menstrual periods.  Civilized nations are moving away from that kind of sectarian silliness.

Every culture that has survived to the present day has done so because the people recognized that theft, murder and lying hurt other members of the culture.  No gods were needed to teach that lesson; humans knew those things were bad already, long before the Bible was written.  Gods were invented to enforce village laws through fear, not to create the laws.

You will be wrong {about GC not getting a new body after death}.

Medical science says otherwise.

I'm telling you the facts, you can see them anyway you want and you can hold me responsible till the end of time, it changes nothing. What is to come is as real as we are. I'm trying to help you to avoid this hell and then you wish such on me, shame on you. Besides I have a wonderful Christian family that will be in heaven with me. I mean only good for you, by the way have a wonderful weekend.

No, not a single member of your family will ever get to heaven.  Ever.

I feel no shame about the seiðr that I have spoken upon you.  I see it as a necessary evil to liberate you from your ghastly superstitions, and I fully accept any consequences of my action.  May the nightmares intensify with the passing of days and months and utterly crush your faith beyond any hope of restoration, so that you can lead your family into the light of reality.

[Godscreated]

Your belief doesn't mean much, the reality is God exists and is worthy of worship.

Unsupported assertion.  No evidence for your god, and even if it did exist I wouldn't worship the blighter.

You seem to be running out of new answers, I'm starting to see some of the same statements from you. I have evidence and so I know He is worthy of worship.

Almost certainty means you do not know, I do because my soul communicates with God.

One nonexistent thing cannot communicate with another nonexistent thing.

You need to show that one or neither exist, you are making a statement from uncertainty.
 

Are you saying that the atheist that have spiritual encounters with nature are just imagining they had some sort of experience?

No; what I'm saying is that that kind of experience is generated by the physical brain, with no connection to anything supernatural.

Well on my part I would rather have spiritual encounters with the One who created that that others find worth worship.

I fully understand facts and truth, they are a part of my daily life. I've been trusted by others with important things and they have come back and asked me to do others and that's all that really matters to me.

Yet you consistently drop the ball when talking about your imaginary friend, spouting all manner of silly things that bear no relation to reality.  That phenomenon is known as "compartmentalization."  Perhaps others trust you.  I do not.

Fine if that's how you want it, then why continue a conversation with me. I haven't dropped the ball, you have failed to catch the ball, you let it fall to the groung because you are afraid to examine what it contains.

I'm not trying to convert them that job belongs to God. I give out the of God's word and then it's up to them. It's not for me to know the results of God's work through me, the important thing is He does His work and I'm blessed to be chosen by the creator of the universe to be involved.

I believe that you chose yourself for that mission.

Nope. I was chosen by God as all Christians are to spread the good word about Jesus.

Bible colleges are institutions of higher learning.

 

Yet your purported knowledge of science falls far short of what I knew in grade 8, and is but a smudge on the floor compared to what I know 46 years later.  

You seem to have been taught to simply reject anything that disagrees with the Bible, which is no education at all.

I doubt your 8th grade knowledge is anywhere near what I know now. And no one told me to reject the science that goes against the Bible that comes by way of understanding both can't be right and I choose to side with the God who created all things.

Have you taken the time to study what you call "ridiculous apologetics"?

I've given them the time they deserve -- which is very, very little.

I'm not like you in that way I still learn about what evolutionary sciences teach, helps me to better understand both sides of the issues.

I do believe in a young earth, it could be a little older than 6000 years but not a great deal.

I believe that the earth is close to 5 billion years old, and this is borne out by radiometric dating of very old rocks.  In fact, if you put me in a geology lab and gave me a mass spectrometer, a rock crusher and a morning's worth of instruction, I could probably duplicate those experiments in the afternoon.  Can you say the same?

Rocks can't be dated especially with any accuracy. You would be duplicating a task that has no truth in dating rocks. Probably not, but through science I can fix your air conditioner.

I didn't know you were vulnerable, sorry to scare you. I bring up hell and it's horror when it enters the conversation and I would be dishonest not to inform others of what I know.

No, I'm not the vulnerable one.  I'm doing this to protect people who are vulnerable.  It is one of my wishes that frightening children with tales of hellfire is one day treated as a felony, with jail time for anyone convicted of the crime.

You do come across as insufferably rude when you "warn" us of hell.  Suffice to say you will never get invited to any parties at my place, as my guests deserve better entertainment.

Did they ask you to? Maybe they would like to be informed and by the way who are you to say who is and isn't vulnerable. It's okay for you to spread evolution to small children who are impressionable, yet you would deny a parent the right to teach their children what they believe is important to their children's lives, how tyrannical of you. Most Southern Baptist Churches do not teach about hell until children are older.
 If I were invited to one of your parties I wouldn't even speak of religion unless asked, there are many other things I am quite comfortable talking about and i'm sure your other guest would find me at least somewhat interesting. You think I'm rude about hell because it scares the .... out of you. I would rather see people come to Christ because they want to have a loving relationship with Him. Here one can't get away from the subject of hell because so many of the atheist seem infatuated with it.

God is real and your disbelief can not change that. "Jail break" that's illegal. "Aiding and abetting" that's illegal.

False imprisonment is also illegal, as is torture.

True, very true. However those who choose hell are there by choice, their judgment of their sins will show why they will be punished. Doesn't matter how much you object to the judgment, punishment and hell it is a reality you can do nothing about, unless you want to escape it.

Really, much of the law today is based from the book you think is worthless.

Nothing in, say, the Canadian criminal code prohibits adultery, or worship of graven images, or disrespecting one's parents, or coveting the neighbour's car, or eating bacon, or working on the Sabbath; neither is there any obligation in secular law for women to make offerings at a synagogue after their menstrual periods.  Civilized nations are moving away from that kind of sectarian silliness.

You know that wasn't what I was talking about. Naming some of the old Jewish laws that are not part of Christianity shows your ignorance of the scriptures. For those things you named from the Ten Commandments, they are of good use in a society. No adultery would mean less divorce with better family relations and children growing up in two parent homes. Less coveting means people are paying more attention to their own lives and living within their means instead of going crazy in debt, filing bankruptcy that cost everyone, even those of us who pay all debt back responsibly, less stealing to. God made the Sabbath for man and if all would abide by it people could get rest from a weeks labor, meaning less stressed out people and more productive, this is at the very least. Civilized people would be better off if they were to obey those commandments.

Every culture that has survived to the present day has done so because the people recognized that theft, murder and lying hurt other members of the culture.  No gods were needed to teach that lesson; humans knew those things were bad already, long before the Bible was written.  Gods were invented to enforce village laws through fear, not to create the laws.

God gave the first laws and condemned the first murder, they may have only been written down years later but they first came from God, why, because He planted those within our being (soul). Evolutionary science has no answer for where our moral values came from, it lacks in many areas.

You will be wrong {about GC not getting a new body after death}.

Medical science says otherwise.

Medical science no longer recognizes God unfortunately, but it is His power that that over rides all the things people think they know. I will have a new body, perfect at that.

I'm telling you the facts, you can see them anyway you want and you can hold me responsible till the end of time, it changes nothing. What is to come is as real as we are. I'm trying to help you to avoid this hell and then you wish such on me, shame on you. Besides I have a wonderful Christian family that will be in heaven with me. I mean only good for you, by the way have a wonderful weekend.

No, not a single member of your family will ever get to heaven.  Ever.

Wrong and I hope you will be joining us.

I feel no shame about the seiðr that I have spoken upon you.  I see it as a necessary evil to liberate you from your ghastly superstitions, and I fully accept any consequences of my action.  May the nightmares intensify with the passing of days and months and utterly crush your faith beyond any hope of restoration, so that you can lead your family into the light of reality.

  I have no superstitions, those are for the ones who do not believe in the living God. There are no real consequences to that kind of action unless you have compassion for others. No chance of that, we are fully committed to God through Jesus, we have been secured for Him through grace and our protection is guaranteed by the creator of the universe.

GC

[Edwardo Piet]

A better terminology for "The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" would be "The Daddy, the Laddy and the Majestic J.D. bottle."

[Astreja]

You seem to be running out of new answers, I'm starting to see some of the same statements from you. I have evidence and so I know He is worthy of worship.

That's because I'm satisfied with the answers I've given, so now I'm just paraphrasing and coming up with an occasional new example to illustrate my points.

You need to show that one or neither exist, you are making a statement from uncertainty.

Nope.  I'm content with my 99.999... certainty that your god is fictional and don't have to prove anything to you.

Well on my part I would rather have spiritual encounters with the One who created that that others find worth worship.

That's fine.  Not my thing, though.

Fine if that's how you want it, then why continue a conversation with me. I haven't dropped the ball, you have failed to catch the ball, you let it fall to the groung because you are afraid to examine what it contains.

I shall not be silenced.  You are propagating what I consider an immoral and cowardly philosophy, and it shall not go unchallenged.

I was chosen by God as all Christians are to spread the good word about Jesus.

I reiterate that your mission is imaginary, taken primarily from an old book.  I don't believe for an instant that an actual god would choose someone like you to speak on its behalf.

I doubt your 8th grade knowledge is anywhere near what I know now. And no one told me to reject the science that goes against the Bible that comes by way of understanding both can't be right and I choose to side with the God who created all things.

Shall we put our respective current knowledge to the test, then, in a controlled environment with fact-checking?  When I was in grade 8 I had already won a regional math competition, could explain the inner workings of thermonuclear weapons to a layman, and had begun to acquire a rather substantial amount of practical knowledge in everything from carpentry to electronics.  (IIRC, that was also the year I wrote 3 final exams for 3 different math classes and averaged 99%.)

That was back in 1971-72.  I just turned 60, and haven't stopped learning.  You, on the other hand, are clearly filtering incoming information through the Bible without seriously challenging the validity of that approach.

Rocks can't be dated especially with any accuracy. You would be duplicating a task that has no truth in dating rocks. Probably not, but through science I can fix your air conditioner.

You are quite wrong about radiometric dating, as it uses multiple pairings of radioactive isotope half-lives to test the same sample in different ways, arriving at overlapping date ranges that identify the probable age of the sample.

And I wouldn't let you anywhere near my air conditioner.  I don't trust you, and I already have a dependable HVAC supplier.

Did {vulnerable people} ask you to {protect them}? Maybe they would like to be informed and by the way who are you to say who is and isn't vulnerable.

Judging from my experiences as a regular on one particular ex-Christian forum, there are a lot of people who are still suffering PTSD from the ghastly psychological abuse that they were subjected to as a child.  I tend to get roundly cheered whenever I tear a strip off some "believe or burn" Christian who has stumbled into our sanctuary.

I would rather see people come to Christ because they want to have a loving relationship with Him.

Then you must stop talking about hell altogether.  Love and fear are antithetical to each other.

However those who choose hell are there by choice...

That is pure, unadulterated pig excrement.  People do not generally choose pain, let alone an eternity of agony.  That's just something you and other believers keep repeating so that you don't have to face up to the prospect that you are worshipping an evil god.

You know that wasn't what I was talking about. Naming some of the old Jewish laws that are not part of Christianity shows your ignorance of the scriptures.

Oh, I think I know them at least as well as you do.  Remember when Jesus said that the law would not pass away?  If you truly follow Jesus, and not Paul the Antichrist, you are obligated to keep those silly laws.

God made the Sabbath for man and if all would abide by it people could get rest from a weeks labor...

I get 2 days off every week (3 this week because it's the Labour Day weekend).  If my schedule changed and I got Monday and Tuesday off instead of Saturday and Sunday, I'd be fine with that.  There's nothing special about the Sabbath; it's just a day of the week.

God gave the first laws and condemned the first murder...

Nope.  The Code of Ur-Nammu (ca. 2100-2050 BCE) and the better-known Code of Hammurabi (1754 BCE) both predate the book of Exodus (now thought to be written around the 6th century BCE, around the time of the Babylonian exile).  Deuteronomy is a bit older, perhaps the 8th century BCE, but the Babylonians had written codes of law over a thousand years before the Biblical 10 commandments showed up.

As for the "first murder," there is no evidence that Cain and Abel were real people.  It is far more likely that they represent the factions of agriculture versus herdsmen in the competition for land in the region.

Medical science no longer recognizes God unfortunately, but it is His power that that over rides all the things people think they know. I will have a new body, perfect at that.

I'll let you in on a little secret, GC:  I am a medical professional.  I type reports for doctors of neurology, hypertension, hepatology, nephrology, physical medicine, respirology, gynecology, infectious disease, radiology, allergy and immunology, gastroenterology, genetics, ear/nose/throat, and various other specialties.

I've been at this for 11 years so far, and at last count I've typed over 60,000 reports (usually knocking off 25-30 per day, 5 days a week, plus 200+ short reports per week when I was in the X-ray Department).

Guess how many miracle cures I've heard reported in all that time?  

Getting deities and other silly stuff out of the health care system is a very, very good thing indeed.  It has allowed modern medicine to grow by leaps and bounds.  The demon theory of illness is gone.  We now use antibiotics rather than the blood of sacrificed doves to cure leprosy.  Genetics is now learning how to "edit" genomes to repair them, making it possible for children to avoid inheriting diseases.

No, I'm quite sure that once your current body is gone that'll be the end of the line for you.  Perhaps you'll get lucky and some of your carbon will wind up in an exotic flower somewhere.

I hope you will be joining us {in heaven}.

Not interested.

I have no superstitions, those are for the ones who do not believe in the living God.

As far as I'm concerned, your entire belief system is one massive superstition.

...we have been secured for Him through grace and our protection is guaranteed by the creator of the universe.

Good luck with that.  Christians don't appear to be any more protected than anyone else, but rather adept at making up excuses like "God was testing me"  or "God needed another angel in heaven" when things go awry.

[Cyberman]

Nope.  I'm content with my 99.999... certainty that your god is fictional and don't have to prove anything to you.

Oh, I think we can go even further. Intellectual honesty dictates that we allow the infinitesimal possibility of something that could be regarded as a god existing. But the biblegod? The clown that made the Universe in six days, man out of dust and woman out of a meatbone, who couldn't even find them when they were hiding behind a tree? The idiot that made the Sun and Moon to be lights, and stars as lamps fixed to a sky-dome? The imbecile that wiped out all but a completely non-viable breeding population of humans and animals, in order to eradicate corruption, then allowed his little genetic experiment to restock everything including the capacity for the corruption?

We can say for certain that cunt doesn't exist.

[Ravenshire]

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In light of the bolded passages above, it makes no sense at all. How do you explain the very real cases of personality changes in people who have suffered traumatic brain injuries? If the soul is "who we are" and it is "separate from the entire body," how can a brain injury cause us to become different people?

They happen but that has nothing to do with a spiritual relationship with God. I'm speaking spiritually not our physical make-up. Christ said, what is it for a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul. Christ wasn't speaking of the eternal as the physical, and He was definitely telling us that the soul and physical body are separate. what you posted in blue below shows a physical change can happen when the brain is injured and it shows that a process of the self can influence that change, can you say for certainty that is not an influence of the soul in some cases. The purpose of the soul is for us to be able to know there is God.

How can something completely separate from the physical body be affected in any way by a physical injury?

The soul want be changed by a brain injury specifically because it is separate from the body. The soul is how we will know God is speaking to us as long as we (the physical person) will listen. The soul will seek God if the physical self will co-operate, it does take both to gain salvation. I wish I were better able to explain what I know, you probably couldn't have picked a harder point to discuss.

God doesn't treat people like rubbish, people choose hell and God gives them what they chose. If they do not want to spend eternity with God then He will not force them. The scriptures tell us once a person dies his/her chances are over, that's the end point, you're judged and given the punishment you chose for disobedience. God deals in eternal things not temporal.

GC

So, after 80 years or so (I use that number since it's the reasonable expectation for a "normal" life span), if we haven't "found gawd," we're fucked. Even those of us who earnestly sought and never received an answer? That is not the action of a "loving gawd," nor is it the act of a "just gawd." If any god exists, I'll bet you wouldn't recognize it if it came up and introduced itself. The gawd you describe is a petulant child that murders it's pets for displeasing it.

Please understand I can't know that you made the earnest attempt, I do not have that power. I do know when you were making an attempt that I could have been there to help you understand what was going on, I wasn't so I can't really say much. I do know this, one can not find God until God (the Holy Spirit) calls you, Jesus taught this very thing to His disciples and I will look it up if you want me to. I believe this to mean that God knows when we will be ready to accept Christ as Lord and Savior, and what I mean is that we will accept Him for the right reasons. Some of those reasons could be hidden from our understanding for years after we accept Christ as savior, I know that reasons are being shown me even now that I never even thought about before. That's why you have probably heard that it is in God's timing, it's true in the case of salvation, God knows best. I've asked others and I want to ask you, do you know what omnipresent means as it pertains to God? I only came to a true understanding of it about a tear ago, why, because I wasn't ready to understand all of it's meaning until I had grown enough in Christ.
Believe me God is loving and much more so than any of us can understand. Yes I and all mankind will recognize God, there will be no mistaken that, we will be made aware of His full glory at that time and the saved and unsaved alike will see Him as He really is, far greater than we could ever imagine. God in all actuality owns us and we have always be at His mercy in some way, but as far as hell goes that is our choice alone, not even God will make that one for us. 

You use the phrase "figure it out," I find that strange because it sounds like one has to use a standard method to come to know God. It happens in many different ways for many different people. You might get tired of hearing Drich saying seek Him out, but it is true and that simple. People try and over complicate the process, you see God made it simple because there are those who for the lack of a better phrase, simple minded and can't process complicated things. This is a spiritual process not one of the mind, hope that covers the 80 years. The only requirement for salvation is to accept Jesus Christ for who He is and what He did for us and it was done of His on free will. You like me have never really had to choose hell, it was our eternal destination. We choose to be freed from that destination through the work of Jesus Christ. You have to understand that God only deals in the eternal because He is eternal and any sin that one commits is eternal because it's against the eternal God. If sin goes unforgiven the sin remains for eternity. Christ died and took our punishment so we wouldn't have to suffer that punishment and God says we have to accept who Christ is and what He did on our behalf to receive that forgiveness. So nothing is finite with God, He created an eternal soul and that will be judged or forgiven according to our choice, this is one choice God will not make for any man, it belongs to each of us alone. Have a good weekend.

GC

Yes, I used "figure it out" as a shorthand term. As I've told you in the past and as I've told drippy, I did seek. With every fiber of my being, on bended knee I sought. I cried out in prayer. I wanted to believe. Who wouldn't want to given all the claims made by you religious folk. Your books tells us to "Seek and ye shall find. Ask and it shall be given unto you." The problem is, I sought and found nothing. I asked and was given nothing.

Let me ask you this, sincerely, why do you purposely misspell God and us the term drippy? As I said earlier in the post I can't say if you did or did not, but I choose to believe you. I choose to believe you because I know that God will call to you at the time He knows is best, that's why I asked you about omnipresent. Why would God call you before you were be ready to commit to Him in a manner that would have you to never lose your faith. I've seen people try to talk others into salvation and I've seen the results of that and most of the time it isn't good. I would never try and talk you into salvation, first because it is not mine to offer that's why I keep saying that is God's work, but I will as I try to do here is encourage you and anyone else that might want it. I certainly would have encouraged you back when you were trying to communicate with God. See I don't even know whether those that were around you did or even if they tried to help in any way, I'm pretty sure they didn't explain to you what I have in that it all is in God's perfect timing. Question did you ask people for what was going on that you didn't get a response from God? If you were expecting something that God couldn't give you when you were asking or expecting Christianity to be a certain way that it's not then when that didn't happen you would have become discouraged and left God. God knows when and a person has to be patient. Something else I hope will help explain what I'm saying about the soul, The soul is who we are in relation to God, our brain can't conceive of who God is and without the soul we would be as lost as a stray dog.  

You've got this sick, twisted belief burning inside you that we are all somehow worthy of hell, no matter what. That we are, in a sense, branded by "sin." Is it really because (allegedly) some nekkid lady picked a choice bit of fruit and ate it, gaining the knowledge of good and evil by doing so? Or, is it just a made up disease, created for the sole purpose of selling you the only cure?

Sorry but it's not twisted and we are condemned if we do not choose to be freed of the eternal punishment, but better yet choose to accept the love of Christ and then know the eternal punishment has nothing to do with us. Those like me that sought first to keep out of hell struggle and sometimes never grow in Christ, it was many years before I realized I wasn't able to grow because I was happy with the status quo. God continued working with me until I realized that Christianity was much more and better than just staying out of hell. Yes Adam and Eve are why we are condemned, we are born with a sin nature. Adam and Eve caused all people for all time to lose the sinless nature we could have been born with, but in some kind of defense of them, if it hadn't of been them it would have soon happened, Lucifer wasn't going down without a fight and his whole desire was to hurt God and grow the rebellion to help him to take God's throne, silly little serpent was blinded by his own hate. But people need to know that God gave us a way out as long as we were willing to accept His plan through Christ. When He flooded the world He could have easily enough of taken Noah and his family with the flood waters, then folded up the universe and gone home, but He didn't, His love saved us all for another chance and that chance cost Him dearly and when a person recognizes that, well I believe they are close to being called. As much as most atheist here want to believe I'm trying to sell them a made up disease and a made up cure, I'm not it's all very real and one day those who refuse to believe will find out I was telling the truth. Why would I lie about this, why would I spend so many years on this forum if it were not true, all the time I've spent here has cost me several pieces of furniture I could have built. You all think it's easy being a Christian and it's not and God never promised us it would be. You all need to remember we still have that old nature to sin and it nags at us all the time, God's allowed Satan to tempt us and we have to remember to count on God to help us resist, it will help us in the long run, but nevertheless we will deal with this to the day we die.

GC, your belief in an ancient war god and it's alleged progeny has you by the short and curlies. You claim to have an open mind, so I'm going to make you a challenge. For one month, direct all your prayers, all your devotion, all your faith and all your belief to a gallon jug of milk. I'm betting that all your returns will be exactly the same as they are now.

Nope, I want waste my time on denying my God because that is exactly what I would be doing, I'm stronger than you might think and I know the real truth and that's what gives me the strength and knowledge not to be fooled. I'm going to take it you meant well by that, but you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, know why, he knows when he's thirsty, understand?

In another post you denied being a science denier. Have you come around on the subject of evolution yet?

I like science and believe in much of it a person would be stupid to deny all science, it's in our every day lives. Evolution will never be a part of my belief because I know creation by God is the truth. Evolution has far to many problems to over come and I know that they will never be over come. I do not believe in the "big bang" as science presents it, science can't ans never will be able to explain where the material came from to have a big bang, can't travel to the past, for us it's gone. I use to study with scientist and professors on this very thing (creation vs big bang, evolution) and I can see for myself the problems that face these theories. I've seen how scientist have had to either add or subtract to equations to get them to meat what physics demands, that's cheating to say the least. You all might hate the Creation Sciences (I don't agree with all they say) but I bet most if not all of you have never given them a good look. Like I said we studied both and creation science answers questions better. If you don't know the creation sciences have some extremely top notch scientist and I watched one of then debate an evolutionist at the our local university and the evolutionary scientist all but embarrassed himself. He did not give his students much to cheer about.

You are not worthy of hell, GC. No matter what you done or haven't done. No one is ever deserving of eternal suffering. Throw off your shackles and lose your fear. There's nothing to be afraid of.

I was and I knew it, it's why I wanted to change my situation. I have nothing to fear and I'm not sure why you think I am afraid, my future is secure for eternity. Everyone who does not accept Christ as their savior will find their eternal destiny is an eternal punishment because their sins are still unforgiven and against the eternal God and thus justice is eternal punishment. God says that any unforgiven sin will cost one their eternal soul as Jesus said, what does it gain a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul. i'm sure you probably can't see that at this time.... but maybe some day. Thanks for the good conversation.

GC

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Wow. Wayyyy too much bullshit in there to deal with without my hip-waders. I'll cover a couple points though. Evolution, it's real. If you actually studied it, even from a layman's POV, you'd be able to see it. Your willful ignorance on the matter is the only thing that can prevent you from seeing it. The evidence is there, it's reproducible and it's overwhelming. If you don't think so, you may want to step back from all the modern medicine based on it. After all, that all must be black magic if evolution never happened. You want to argue that creation is a science? By all means, please provide the evidence (that rules out your book of voodoo).

No-one, not you, not me, not anyone either of us know, has ever heard of, or has never even heard of, is deserving of eternal torture. That belief is sick, even if you don't recognize it. Your view of hell, as expressed above, does owe more to "Paradise Lost" the your buy-bull. You should read it some time. It's a fantastic work of fiction, far better than the one you like to quote.

If you haven't yet figured out the dual reasons I spell gawd the way I do, you'll never get it.

I knew you'd forego the milk jug challenge. You don't have enough faith to allow it to be challenged. Don't feel bad though. Most of you gawd-botherers don't.

Your whole sales pitch fails with me GC. As I've said, I sought your gawd,and your absences wasn't a factor, despite your hubris (pride goes before the fall and all). I was surrounded by self-proclaimed kool-aid drinkers, just like you. None of that changes the fact that when I cried out, your gawd never responded. I've learned since then what a sham religion is. Don't blame the messenger.