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Current time: 23rd June 2017, 08:08

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Damned Muslims
#11
RE: Damned Muslims
(19th October 2010, 16:04)Synackaon Wrote: Dude man, you're judging their culture man. That's not right man. /sarcasm

Reminds me of a joke I heard once.

"You must understand, sir, in my culture, it's acceptable for a man to kill his daughter who dishonored her family."

"We respect your culture but you must understand, sir, that in my culture, it's acceptable to convict men who kill their daughters for murder and then hang them."
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"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#12
RE: Damned Muslims
We left my father's house because of his "discipline": it's fucking bullshit. I don't care what a holy book encourages or condemns. You can call it wicked to "beat" your spouse or children - who gets to define what's considered beating?

And don't tell me that shit "disciplines" anyone - all it teaches you is to fear, not respect.

Lawmakers, go ahead and say it's okay as long as there are no "lasting marks". There's even more bullshit right there - the marks on your body fade, but they never completely leave your memory.
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#13
RE: Damned Muslims
Quote:Islamic Court: UAE Says Wife, Child Beating OK - Just Don't Leave Any Marks

What if I refrase this too;

Islamic Court: UAE Says Wife, Child smacking OK - Just Don't smack too hard.

Would it make any difference? Aslo, it is a translation from Arabic.

I personally think it is a bit harsh to tar a whole group of people with the same brush. As if they are all bad! Please get real.

There is a great deal of difference between abuse and dicipline. But I can see this is going to be a touchy subject.
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#14
RE: Damned Muslims
(19th October 2010, 18:25)padraic Wrote: Oh,so a wife is inferior to her husband,as a child needing to be taught proper behaviour,not an equal? That seems to contradict a basic premise of Islam; the equality of the sexes. There is a technical term here in Australia for men who beat their wives; 'criminals' as such behaviour is felony assault.
We believe that men and women are equal indeed. Both sexes are equal and neither of them are considered to be inferior to each other in a human-wise sense. The only difference is that they have different religious rights over each other. So, there are certain rights which a husband has over his wife and vice versa. But in a human sense, they are both equal to each other according to Islam.

Also, women can have the same state rights as men as long as it doesn't contradict the religious rights of Islam.

(19th October 2010, 18:25)padraic Wrote: Hitting any creature,animal or human,weaker than oneself is unmanly and cowardly.
Yeah, it's not good to hit anyone if you can use other ways of communication without any violence. I don't think I would never hit my wife either (if I get married in the future). I also don't remember the last time that I hit my younger brother for any reason. A few times he has punched me in the arm and physically push me around but I never hit him back nor raise my voice at him. Having said that, I also want to say that there are certain times when hitting is permissible, though, according to the Quran. See the comments below.

(19th October 2010, 19:39)Minimalist Wrote: Yes it is. The opposite would be condemning it but the koran remains suspiciously silent.
Actually there is a verse about this in the Quran, which says:

"As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great." (Surah 4:34)

This means that using physical force should be used as a last resort if nothing else works (because it is the last mode of action written in that verse out of the three). And this only applies in serious situations, in which you could do this to save yourself from calling the police or getting a divorce if your wife has done something really bad (as a way of punishing her for the sake of justice). And if you love someone, then you have the right to discipline them either verbally or physically, for a good reason, and without going to extreme measures as set by the religion.

(19th October 2010, 20:13)Chuck Wrote: In the following way:
(19th October 2010, 17:57)Rayaan Wrote: Well, making the beating of wives permissible in Islam ........ Only a wicked person hits his wife."
Saying that something is permissible does not mean that it is advisable to do such a thing.

For example, there are certain places in some hotels in which you are allowed to smoke, but this doesn't mean that it is advisable for you to smoke, because smoking is simply bad for your health and it can possibly reduce your lifespan significantly. The same thing with the court ruling. What the judge said is that beating your wife is permissible in the sense that you will not punished by the state for doing so. However, it does not equal to saying that beating your wife is "okay" as if it's not a bad thing at all.
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#15
RE: Damned Muslims
(20th October 2010, 03:14)Rayaan Wrote:
(19th October 2010, 20:13)Chuck Wrote: In the following way:
(19th October 2010, 17:57)Rayaan Wrote: Well, making the beating of wives permissible in Islam ........ Only a wicked person hits his wife."
Saying that something is permissible does not mean that it is advisable to do such a thing.

For example, there are certain places in some hotels in which you are allowed to smoke, but this doesn't mean that it is advisable for you to smoke, because smoking is simply bad for your health and it can possibly reduce your lifespan significantly. The same thing with the court ruling. What the judge said is that beating your wife is permissible in the sense that you will not punished by the state for doing so. However, it does not equal to saying that beating your wife is "okay" as if it's not a bad thing at all.

I see. So being wicked is permissible, if not advisable or okay. I see the distinction now So if we grant that it is not advisable or okay for your wife to beat you, would you grant that it is permissible for her to beat you, for that represent a tolerable level of wickedness, so long as she take care to inflict only deep contusions, concussions, psychological sense of failure as a man, and other similar "punishments" that leaves no marks?


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#16
RE: Damned Muslims
(19th October 2010, 17:57)Rayaan Wrote: Well, making the beating of wives permissible in Islam is not the same thing as supporting it. No one said that it's a good thing. It's better not to hit them at all.

The important thing to know is that the beating is allowed only for a good reason such as to discipline them.

This kind of backwards thinking is one of the main reasons why Islam is completely incompatible for modern civilisation.
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#17
RE: Damned Muslims
(20th October 2010, 04:02)Chuck Wrote:
(20th October 2010, 03:14)Rayaan Wrote:
(19th October 2010, 20:13)Chuck Wrote: In the following way:
(19th October 2010, 17:57)Rayaan Wrote: Well, making the beating of wives permissible in Islam ........ Only a wicked person hits his wife."
Saying that something is permissible does not mean that it is advisable to do such a thing.

For example, there are certain places in some hotels in which you are allowed to smoke, but this doesn't mean that it is advisable for you to smoke, because smoking is simply bad for your health and it can possibly reduce your lifespan significantly. The same thing with the court ruling. What the judge said is that beating your wife is permissible in the sense that you will not punished by the state for doing so. However, it does not equal to saying that beating your wife is "okay" as if it's not a bad thing at all.

I see. So being wicked is permissible, if not advisable or okay. I see the distinction now So if we grant that it is not advisable or okay for your wife to beat you, would you grant that it is permissible for her to beat you, for that represent a tolerable level of wickedness, so long as she take care to inflict only deep contusions, concussions, psychological sense of failure as a man, and other similar "punishments" that leaves no marks?
Women are very scary when beating men, that's what i read female man beaters leave more mental scars than the opposite
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#18
RE: Damned Muslims
I tried sending mine back to "wife school"...but that ain't working out too well. I would consider the beating thing an option if my wife weren't so much bigger than me. Too dangerous...I'll play it safe, and continue the "yes dear" option.
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Quote: JohnDG...
Quote:It was an awful mistake to characterize based upon religion. I should not judge any theist that way, I must remember what I said in order to change.
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#19
RE: Damned Muslims
(20th October 2010, 08:04)A Theist Wrote: I tried sending mine back to "wife school"...but that ain't working out too well. I would consider the beating thing an option if my wife weren't so much bigger than me. Too dangerous...I'll play it safe, and continue the "yes dear" option.

Or just both join Islam, then you can go about treating her like a second class citizen and beat her to show her discipline when she dares speak out whilst at the same time claiming the religion you follow teaches peace, tolerance and equality and if anyone says anything you can label them racist.
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#20
RE: Damned Muslims
As if women in the Western World don't get beaten as well.
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