Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues

[The Grand Nudger]

I'll repeat my previous comments in the form of a question.  Do you think that it's possible that advocates of racism have managed to steer some narratives to a point of advantage for their ideologies?  Do you think that it;s possible that one, or some, of these narratives have influenced your appraisal of the situation regarding statue enthusiasm?

I doubt it.  My assessment of them is that they are a bunch of wingnuts in Halloween costumes.

I was referring to the boring racists in suits who's script you're parroting - not the superfans in hoods. The normalizing arm of racism.

Is it your opinion, then, that both you and the boring racists find yourselves saying the same things by coincidence?  Or is it that you feel that the boring racists have competently argued their case, insomuch as statue enthusiasm is concerned......and you agree?

Any answer to this question would answer the implied question of why you're being mistaken for a kkk guy (or why you have the self conscious apprehension as such, anyway). You would either approve of or condone some specific action they would for entirely different reasons than they offer. Such as the maintenance of jim crow monuments for the sake of a controversy manufactured by their respectable selves. Or you find some ideological agreement with racists.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nobody is saying that you* can't have statues of murderers, rapists, slavers, terrorists, whatever else you want, in a park. You just don't get to use tax payer money to keep that park running. 


*Generic "you".

And "wingnuts" aren't usually lynching people.

If the community decides to re/move them, that is.

Yeah, well, that's when the courts would come into play.

[Amarok]

So benny is still denying they are a violent group of thugs despite

- Most of the rallies ring leaders having criminal records most violent crimes. Or openly consorting with known violent or criminal organizations . Indeed let's distinguish between the super fans and the ring leaders .

- Are followers of a violent  ideology .If you believe me ask them about how they intend to build there white utopia .

-Have written justifications for genocide (Richard Spencers article saying wiping out black people is fine) And all but declared a race war (Via heat streets/ The Dailystormer)

- They chanted race war slogans "blood and soil and "you will not replace us " and choose to use a tactic the Klan and the Naz's used to intimidate minorities .

- Had already talked about the legality of running people over

- Encouraged their followers to come heavily armed

- Tried recruiting militia groups (Oath Keepers )

-Admitted on there own chats this was about white nationalism

-And even there own allies (the Oath keepers they tried to recruit ) don't buy it was about the statue .

- Oh and they attacked a synagogue

Yup not a violent group just peaceful fun loving hippies. And no benny stop comparing them to Jews or Muslims . One is a group of mostly peaceful people with a couple extremist loons . The other is a hate movement who end goals are malevolent  by nature . But i'm opening to being wrong show me version of their ideology that does not end in genocide or forced immigration of minorities or a apartheid state enforced by brutal violence. Spoilers it does not exist .

[FatAndFaithless]

Has Benny even conceded that there legitimate reasons why people would want those statues re/moved? All I've seen him do is insult the people who want to re/move them and claim that they're committing genocide on ideas they don't like, and apparently that we're losing our rights?

[Amarok]

Pretty much .

[Mister Agenda]

Put simply: the point of a physical representation of a person is to remember that person.  When did it come to pass that only people we are fond of should be remembered?

Let a statue of Lee have this effect: those who despise him can ponder why they despise him.  Those who love him can ponder why they love him.  The rest of us can simply look and say, "Oh I know that name.  So that's what he looked like. . . "

There's something very insidious about the millennial generation who are so sure that they are right about everything that they are willing to squash free speech or expression in their effort to commit genocide on memes with which they do not agree.  There is NO idea so abhorrent to me that I would give up my own right to hold unpopular ideas in order to make sure someone else can no longer express theirs.

Ah, the good ole 'Damn kids these days' canard.  And you do realize that it isn't only young people that want to move the statues...right?

And removing a statue is hardly 'genocide on a meme' or 'squashing free speech.'  Open a book, go to a museum, watching a documentary, and stop being so sloppily hyperbolic.

I'm 55. The damn things should have been taken down many decades ago.

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I suppose removing them from public property will make us feel better about ourselves, but I can't be sure if it will do much else.

I live in Columbia, SC. If you don't think removing an in-your-face symbol of oppression from the public square has enough impact on the people it's intended to intimidate to justify removing it, all I have to say is that my impression from close up is very, very different. No victim of horrendous oppression should have to waste the mental bandwidth it takes to deal with that kind of shit.

[Amarok]

Ah, the good ole 'Damn kids these days' canard.  And you do realize that it isn't only young people that want to move the statues...right?

And removing a statue is hardly 'genocide on a meme' or 'squashing free speech.'  Open a book, go to a museum, watching a documentary, and stop being so sloppily hyperbolic.

I'm 55. The damn things should have been taken down many decades ago.

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I suppose removing them from public property will make us feel better about ourselves, but I can't be sure if it will do much else.

I live in Columbia, SC. If you don't think removing an in-your-face symbol of oppression from the public square has enough impact on the people it's intended to intimidate to justify removing it, all I have to say is that my impression from close up is very, very different. No victim of horrendous oppression should have to waste the mental bandwidth it takes to deal with that kind of shit.

Benny apparently denies symbolisms

[Brakeman]

Yes, it's quite lovely for black people when they walk by a statue erected in honor of Stonewall Jackson, a monument to someone who wanted to keep them enslaved, for trying to keep them enslaved. We definitely shouldn't succumb to the temptation to remove it to a confederate graveyard or museum just because it makes some African-Americans uncomfortable for it to still be honored in the public square. That's so nasty!

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..
Guess what? It turns out that none of those statues were erected to honor their positions on those topics. However, confederate statues were erected to honor the contributions of individuals for their actions in rebelling against the USA in an ill-advised blood-drenched attempt to secure a separate nation explicitly to maintain the institution of slavery. But for some reason, there's no difference in your eyes between a statue to honor Robert. E. Lee for backing his state instead of his nation with panache, and one to honor Martin Luther King, Jr. for his leadership in the Civil Rights movement. Why is that?

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I think you are forgetting the real background to the Civil war. The war was a religious war in that the slave owners slept well at night believing that their god told them that owning slaves was the right thing to do.

The fights of "Brother against brother" were due to siblings taking contrary positions in the bible on the subject. Most southerners had never seen a black man until the abolitionist tug of war started. The US didn't have the internet then and the church pulpit was the main supplier of positional propaganda.

The confederates were not considered ordinary "rebels" of the US government because of the "PC" idea that "freedom of religious stupidity" is a "god given" right. They were just good christian folk that heard different things from their sky god's mumblings, and did a christian jihad over it. No harm done.

Tear down all the churches that preached slavery and other evils first. Then all the other monuments will be just laughable and easy to judge.

[bennyboy]

So benny is still denying they are a violent group of thugs despite

Stop right there.  I have nothing good to say about the white supremacists, and never have.  Your text wall is irrelevant.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, perhaps not the hood wearing ones...but you seem to support the sentiments of the ones in ties who seem normal. Mission accomplished, from their POV.