Emotions are intrinsically good and bad

[Cyberman]

Why do you keep posting conversations with a third party?

Because

[Transcended Dimensions]

Let me give you an example here.  It would be with drug addicts as opposed to average human beings.  When the drug addict gets a blissful high, he would report that this blissful high is like a whole new perception of good value and beauty that goes beyond any thought form. 

So what, is it?  You yourself have invoked the possibility that people might be deluded in their moral assessments.  How do you respond to yourself in this example?

It would be like a whole new sense allowing him to sense goodness and beauty. 

I'm not aware of any drug which has been shown to grant extrasensory perception or, indeed, a new sense. 

But when this addict is off this high and he is feeling miserable, then he would report to you that it doesn't matter what he thinks or believes; his life would still hold no real perception of good value and beauty without these highs.  It would be like being blind and not being able to visualize colors by thinking of colors.  But a normal person would report that he is able to perceive the good values in life with no need for euphoria.

Sounds to me like the drug addicts moral assessments, as described by you, are an unreliable authority.  

Was this intended to be an example of the flaws in your line of thoughtless "therefores"..or....did you imagine that it was some valid rule of inference which lead to your stated positions?

I thought it was a valid rule because everyone's brains are different and we all perceive differently.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and that demonstrates that you have no idea what a valid rule of inference is. 

So, knowing that, what are the odds that you're going to accidentally arrive at one, do you reckon? What stops you from pointing to a rubber duck and saying "this is a valid rule of inference...right?" How could -you- demonstrate that a rubber duck wasn't a valid rule of inference, even....

............?

[Transcended Dimensions]

I currently have nothing more to say at this point.  So, I will just leave this out in the open for others to respond to.  It is sort of the same thing I said earlier:

Drug Addicts Know The Truth And They Wish To Sell It To You:  When the drug addict gets a blissful high, he would report that this blissful high is like a whole new perception of good value and beauty that goes beyond any thought form.  It, in a way, be like a whole new sense allowing him to sense goodness and beauty or that he is some sort of psychic with some whole new sense allowing him to sense the goodness, joys, love, and beauty of this universe.  But when this addict is off this high and he is feeling miserable, then he would report to you that it doesn't matter what he thinks or believes; his life would still hold no real perception of good value and beauty without these highs.  

It would be like being blind and not being able to visualize colors by thinking of colors.  But a normal person would report that he is able to perceive the good values in life with no need for euphoria.  The drug addict could have been awakened to the truth through his profound drug use and perhaps it is the normal people who are delusional and not awakened.  Or, there is another way to perceive the good values in this life besides our euphoric states.  From my personal experience, I do not think there is a way.  But then again, everyone's brains are different and we all perceive differently.  So, who knows.  But that would require, what I call the inner light, to take on a whole new form besides our positive emotions.  The same idea applies to the inner darkness.

[The Grand Nudger]

We're working on novel definitions of morality and truth, at this point, I see...and still shooting blanks by analogy.  Good luck with that.

[Transcended Dimensions]

We're working on novel definitions of morality and truth, at this point, I see...and still shooting blanks by analogy.  Good luck with that.

I think we can start here with this question.  If you were to have no euphoria such as due to a stressful life event or emotional trauma and you believed that things and moments in your life were still good and beautiful, then what would that be like for you?  You might say that it is like something good and beautiful since it is the words "good" and "beautiful" being believed in your mind in regards to those things, situations, and moments.  But I am asking you to look beyond those words.  There should be a form of goodness and beauty there that transcends words.  It would literally be the most powerful and profound state of being and living you could be in.  From my perspective, that state would be our euphoria. 

However, I am asking you if there is any goodness and beauty beyond those words going through your mind during those moments.  If there is none there, then I can honestly conclude that your life has no real good value and beauty at all.  For example, a blind person can think of colors and he could tell you what that was like for him.  He could tell you that it was like red, blue, and green for him.  But these would just be words.  There is a form of red, green, and blue that goes beyond words and that would, again, be him visualizing those colors.  So, what I am asking you here is if you are able to "visualize," so to speak, the good value and beauty in your life during moments where you are completely miserable and/or don't have your euphoria.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think we can start here with this question.  If you were to have no euphoria such as due to a stressful life event or emotional trauma and you believed that things and moments in your life were still good and beautiful, then what would that be like for you?

How should I know?

 You might say that it is like something good and beautiful since it is the words "good" and "beautiful" being believed in your mind in regards to those things, situations, and moments.  But I am asking you to look beyond those words.  There should be a form of goodness and beauty there that transcends words.  It would literally be the most powerful and profound state of being and living you could be in.  From my perspective, that state would be our euphoria. 

Why should there be, and if there should be..does that mean that there is?  I think that my wife's nipples should dispense chilled whiskey.  I can go check if you like..but last I recall they don't.

However, I am asking you if there is any goodness and beauty beyond those words going through your mind during those moments.  If there is none there, then I can honestly conclude that your life has no real good value and beauty at all. 

You can't honestly conclude anything about the value or beauty of my life.  Full stop.

For example, a blind person can think of colors and he could tell you what that was like for him.  He could tell you that it was like red, blue, and green for him.  But these would just be words.  There is a form of red, green, and blue that goes beyond words and that would, again, be him visualizing those colors. 

If you say so, but so what?  / shugs

So, what I am asking you here is if you are able to "visualize," so to speak, the good value and beauty in your life during moments where you are completely miserable and/or don't have your euphoria.

You mean, can I be happy when things are shitty?  Sure.  Can I be miserable when things are good?  Yup.  Can I be completely emotionally unresponsive to either?  Yeah...that too.

[Transcended Dimensions]

I think we can start here with this question.  If you were to have no euphoria such as due to a stressful life event or emotional trauma and you believed that things and moments in your life were still good and beautiful, then what would that be like for you?

How should I know?

 You might say that it is like something good and beautiful since it is the words "good" and "beautiful" being believed in your mind in regards to those things, situations, and moments.  But I am asking you to look beyond those words.  There should be a form of goodness and beauty there that transcends words.  It would literally be the most powerful and profound state of being and living you could be in.  From my perspective, that state would be our euphoria. 

Why should there be, and if there should be..does that mean that there is?  I think that my wife's nipples should dispense chilled whiskey.  I can go check if you like..but last I recall they don't.

However, I am asking you if there is any goodness and beauty beyond those words going through your mind during those moments.  If there is none there, then I can honestly conclude that your life has no real good value and beauty at all. 

You can't honestly conclude anything about the value or beauty of my life.  Full stop.

For example, a blind person can think of colors and he could tell you what that was like for him.  He could tell you that it was like red, blue, and green for him.  But these would just be words.  There is a form of red, green, and blue that goes beyond words and that would, again, be him visualizing those colors. 

If you say so, but so what?  / shugs

So, what I am asking you here is if you are able to "visualize," so to speak, the good value and beauty in your life during moments where you are completely miserable and/or don't have your euphoria.

You mean, can I be happy when things are shitty?  Sure.  Can I be miserable when things are good?  Yup.  Can I be completely emotionally unresponsive to either?  Yeah...that too.

You see, I live my life by a standard of good value and beauty that transcends words.  If this standard does not get met, then my life is completely empty.  That is why I reach the conclusion that our euphoria are truly the only real way we can perceive good value regardless of the moral implications.

[Whateverist]

Anyone ever figure out what the point of the OP was? Beats me.

[The Grand Nudger]

You see, I live my life by a standard of good value and beauty that transcends words. 

Maybe that's why you can't express it in words...but I digress.....

If this standard does not get met, then my life is completely empty. 

Then maybe your life is completely empty.  That would explain some of your comments regarding standards of good value and beauty.

That is why I reach the conclusion that our euphoria are truly the only real way we can perceive good value regardless of the moral implications.

You mean -your-....not -our-.  We're all different or some-such, right?  Your own disabilities have no implications for me whatsoever.