The Cake Case Revisited

[Ravenshire]

I was talking about whether or not it should be legal to turn down servicing a cause that goes against your convictions

This seems to be the sum of your argument, that your convictions should legally let you off the hook for discrimination, no matter what. I sincerely hope to never live in a world where legal equality is held hostage by the convictions of the moral majority.

[Mister Agenda]

I support the right of a black cake maker to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a skinhead couple that want a "pure" white cake with inscription: "White Wedding"!

Bakers in America already have the right to refuse to write messages that they don't agree with on cakes. In every state, I think.

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Deciding in favor of the bakers would basically be striking down the portion of their state's public accommodation laws that protect sexual orientation as well as race and religion. If the court goes that route, I predict that someone from the Satanic Temple will be interested in getting a wedding cake from them. If the bakers refuse to bake it, they'll find themselves in court again, only this time the court will have to strike down the public accommodation laws in every state that protects religious minority. The law that keeps bakers from refusing to make cakes for Jews and Hindus. And if they're struck down for bakeries, why not restaurants and hotels?

The only way the free market can handle this sort of thing is if the business has to put up a sign that you can see before you enter of who they refuse to serve. People have a reasonable expectation in places of public accommodation to be treated as customers, not examples of their race, religion, sex, or orientation.

[Pat Mustard]

This is what they look like...

I'll counter with this:

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You do know the first one was a mould of my chest, right?

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The Northern Ireland courts got it right, if you're in the business of of selling wedding cakes you've no right to turn away potential buyers because you can't control your homophobia.

The only times a business should be allowed turn away a legitimate customer is when the customer wants them do something illegal or something morally repugnant (e.g. baking a wedding cake with a pair of runic "S's" and the slogan "Wir mussen die Juden ausrotten").

Can't say I particularly disagree, hence the phrase "barring outright discrimination".

I wasn't disagreeing, I was rambling.

Well ok, not really rambling, just putting my speak in.

[Aroura]

I really want to know how you tell the difference between the bigot who just uses religion as a cover for their bigotry (I guess they hate blacks and gays just 'cause? No reason...and so apparently Karma happens and their business fails) and the person who legitimately holds a moral conviction that black people should not mix with white people, or that gay weddings (and gay love) are immoral, who's business should apparently be protected. I think many people would see them as the same, just using different reasoning to apply their bigotry.

Are they different, CL? If so, could you explain to me how they are different, and how you would tell the difference?

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P.S I'm not trying to pick on you here. I don't think you are an overt racist or anything. I just think it would be good if we thought our beliefs through. That includes me as well, so feel free to ask me anything in the same fashion.

[Drich]

Sometimes a wedding cake is just delicious. And sometimes it is a First Amendment football.

In its new term, which began Monday (Oct. 2), the Supreme Court, will hear Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, a.k.a. “the cake case.” It stems from 2012, when two gay men visited a Lakewood, Colo., bakery in search of a wedding cake. The owner-baker, who is Christian, turned them away. The case has been in court ever since.

What argument will each side make? Will this be another landmark decision? And when is a cake not just a decadent dessert but an expression of deeply held religious beliefs?

http://religionnews.com/2017/10/03/the-s...eme-court/

there are no laws nor constitutional amendments that dictate that ANY MAN, let alone gay man should be allowed to have his cake and eat it too!!!

[The Grand Nudger]

In fact, there are, enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_conti...suZiTIq3XI

[Divinity]

I wonder how all these fucking Christians would feel if they had to deal with ACTUAL discrimination against them. Like if this were a country with majority atheists and nobody wanted to bake them any wedding cakes, or do business with them just because they're Christian. And people compared their being Christian to being Nazi (which is actually a lot fucking closer than comparing a gay wedding to Nazi's, since Hitler was a professed Christian who killed gay people)

I'd love to see it happen, just to see their hypocrisy when they bitch and moan about how people are persecuting them. I mean for fuck's sake, they do it already just cause Starbucks has the AUDACITY to have red cups. Just imagine how much they'd bitch and moan if everyone refused to do business with their shitty selves. And in the same breath they'd still say they have a right to refuse to serve gay people because it goes against their shitty beliefs. They can fuck off to be honest.

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And I already answered your question. If someone refused me a cake that was unrelated to my Catholicism simply bc I was catholic, I would think that was illegal discrimination of servicing me because of who I am

Why?  I find Catholicsm just as evil as Nazism.  And in your example, you state you can refuse to bake a Nazi cake.  Why can't I refuse to serve a Catholic? Big double standard at play here. Discrimination for thee, but not for me.

[vorlon13]

I wonder how all these fucking Christians would feel if they had to deal with ACTUAL discrimination against them.  Like if this were a country with majority atheists and nobody wanted to bake them any wedding cakes, or do business with them just because they're Christian.  And people compared their being Christian to being Nazi (which is actually a lot fucking closer than comparing a gay wedding to Nazi's, since Hitler was a professed Christian who killed gay people)

I'd love to see it happen, just to see their hypocrisy when they bitch and moan about how people are persecuting them.  I mean for fuck's sake, they do it already just cause Starbucks has the AUDACITY to have red cups.  Just imagine how much they'd bitch and moan if everyone refused to do business with their shitty selves.  And in the same breath they'd still say they have a right to refuse to serve gay people because it goes against their shitty beliefs.  They can fuck off to be honest.

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And I already answered your question. If someone refused me a cake that was unrelated to my Catholicism simply bc I was catholic, I would think that was illegal discrimination of servicing me because of who I am

Why?  I find Catholicsm just as evil as Nazism.  And in your example, you state you can refuse to bake a Nazi cake.  Why can't I refuse to serve a Catholic?  Big double standard at play here.  Discrimination for thee, but not for me.

Or a True Christian© majority relentlessly tracks the slackers and Scripture cherry pickers and actual heretics IN THEIR MIDST, and discriminates against them preferentially because they should know better.

Praise Jesus !!!

[Catholic_Lady]

I wonder how all these fucking Christians would feel if they had to deal with ACTUAL discrimination against them. Like if this were a country with majority atheists and nobody wanted to bake them any wedding cakes, or do business with them just because they're Christian. And people compared their being Christian to being Nazi (which is actually a lot fucking closer than comparing a gay wedding to Nazi's, since Hitler was a professed Christian who killed gay people)

I'd love to see it happen, just to see their hypocrisy when they bitch and moan about how people are persecuting them. I mean for fuck's sake, they do it already just cause Starbucks has the AUDACITY to have red cups. Just imagine how much they'd bitch and moan if everyone refused to do business with their shitty selves. And in the same breath they'd still say they have a right to refuse to serve gay people because it goes against their shitty beliefs. They can fuck off to be honest.

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And I already answered your question. If someone refused me a cake that was unrelated to my Catholicism simply bc I was catholic, I would think that was illegal discrimination of servicing me because of who I am

Why?  I find Catholicsm just as evil as Nazism.  And in your example, you state you can refuse to bake a Nazi cake.  Why can't I refuse to serve a Catholic? Big double standard at play here. Discrimination for thee, but not for me.

As i explained, bc my birthday has nothing to do with Catholicism. So you would be refusing service to me based on who I am. But if you wanted to refuse to make a catholic baptism cake, for example, then you'd have the right to do so if you were morally opposed to catholic baptisms and didn't want to take part in that sort of cause by making a cake for it.

Also, good to know you see me as the equivalence of a Nazi. I'll keep that on my mind when associating with you on these forums from here on out.

[Divinity]

And what if it was your wedding cake? is that okay? Can I deny service to a Catholic wedding? You never seem to mention that. Just baptism or a pro-life rally.

Also you're the one equating gays to Nazi's. Gay people have never done any of the terrible awful things the Catholic Church has done. (And still does)