In 14hudred and nintytwo 45 is an asshole too.

[Cyberman]

VOTE: lynch Brian37

[Rev. Rye]

Jesus Christ, can we at least rename Columbus Day after Leif Erickson, A) who made it to the New World over 400 years before Columbus, B) made it onto the continent, C) actually realised he had discovered a new world unlike Columbus who died convinced he had gone to India, D) shockingly for belonging to a proud warriot race, was most likely NOT complicit in crimes against humanity?

Hell, there already is a Leif Erickson Day, and it actually falls on October 9th, like Columbus Day does this year.

Or at least rename it after Amerigo Vespucci, who has fallen into obscurity despite figuring out that Columbus erred in assuming he reached India, and HAVING TWO CONTINENTS NAMED AFTER HIM as a result.

[Minimalist]

I still think they should have named them North and South Vespuccia.

[Ravenshire]

U.S.V! U.S.V! U.S.V! U.S.V! U.S.V!

[Minimalist]

Today's Non Sequitur

[Rev. Rye]

It's a shame that Vinland didn't last. Apparently, the evidence suggests the Vikings got their asses handed to them by the natives and eventually went back to Greenland or Iceland.

[Minimalist]

I wonder if there was contact at all.  The Norse were certainly not immune to European diseases and we know that after 1492 when there was documented contact the Indians died in droves from contracting those diseases.  In fact, Charles Mann in his book 1491 makes the point that most Indians died of European diseases without ever having seen a European.  The diseases were carried along internal trade routes and devastated the local population long before Europeans ever landed on the mainland and followed those trails.

If there was contact why is there no evidence either of disease spreading or surviving populations having some degree of immunity?  Would make for an interesting discussion.

[downbeatplumb]

I wonder if there was contact at all.  The Norse were certainly not immune to European diseases and we know that after 1492 when there was documented contact the Indians died in droves from contracting those diseases.  In fact, Charles Mann in his book 1491 makes the point that most Indians died of European diseases without ever having seen a European.  The diseases were carried along internal trade routes and devastated the local population long before Europeans ever landed on the mainland and followed those trails.

If there was contact why is there no evidence either of disease spreading or surviving populations having some degree of immunity?  Would make for an interesting discussion.

It may have been a timing thing. A lot of diseases came after the mongols opened the silk road and the crusades brought back some nasties so it may have been that the Vikings that went across were relatively disease free.

[Brian37]

Jesus Christ, can we at least rename Columbus Day after Leif Erickson, A) who made it to the New World over 400 years before Columbus, B) made it onto the continent, C) actually realised he had discovered a new world unlike Columbus who died convinced he had gone to India, D) shockingly for belonging to a proud warriot race, was most likely NOT complicit in crimes against humanity?

Hell, there already is a Leif Erickson Day, and it actually falls on October 9th, like Columbus Day does this year.

Or at least rename it after Amerigo Vespucci, who has fallen into obscurity despite figuring out that Columbus erred in assuming he reached India, and HAVING TWO CONTINENTS NAMED AFTER HIM as a result.

Why would we give credit to late comers, did nobody read the science article? Humans have been in the Americas for an estimated 50,000 years. Europeans did learn how to map things sure, but they were never the first humans on any continent.

[Rev. Rye]

True, but given that the latecomers ended up coming damn close to eradicating those who were there for 50,000 years before them, and they have barely any political power.

I understand right of conquest is frowned upon post WW2, but given that the latecomers did an excellent job of taking over and rendering those who were already there politically irrelevant, well, the depressing fact of politics (especially in America) is that, in practice, might tends to make right. Why, yes, that does suck.