The Myth of the Persecuted Church

[Amarok]

Pretty shitty archery work!

Also never happened .Most of the mytr stories are copied from non christian sources .

[Minimalist]

At any rate they should have raised their sights.  Were they shooting in a downdraft?

[Minimalist]

This passage is not referred to in any other pagan, nor Christian writings until 400 CE.

Incidentally, Vulc, that comment is misleading.  The passage which Carrington refers to was written by Sulpicius Severus in Chronica, an early 5th century work.  However Severus does not quote the whole passage nor does he cite Tacitus as the author.  In fact, he also fails to mention any of the shit about how Christus was crucified by the (improperly-titled) procurator, Pilate.  All he does is quote the lurid details about how xtians were killed which is exactly what Moss is saying was beginning to get rolling about this time in history.

Interesting shit.

[vulcanlogician]

Interesting shit.

It certainly is. You can learn a lot by stirring the pot on AF.org.

I'm kinda bummed though because my go-to argument against fundies on other forums has been:

"Christianity flourished in a pagan empire when Christians simply wanted to live and let live. Isn't it funny how your numbers are dwindling now? You guys have far more influence in contemporary America than you had in ancient Rome. You were fodder for the lions in Rome, yet your numbers grew. These days, you throw your clout around, trying to influence marriage laws, and people leave the religion by droves."

I don't like to use dishonest arguments, so it looks like this one will have to go. Oh well, the only reason I adopted the argument in the first place is because it fit their narrative.

[CapnAwesome]

Always odd to hear people claim that even in America, we've abandoned Jesus. Despite the vast majority of the country bring christians, and celebrating christian holidays. Christians have been held back from making this country a complete theocracy, and that counts as persecution.

Christians in America don't follow the teachings of Jesus, capitalism and Jesus aren't really compatible philosophies. Maybe that's what they mean?

[Chad32]

Yeah, if there was anything consistent about the NT, it was that Jesus was anti wealth. So running an oligarchy, and talking about christian values doesn't really mesh. Then again, after two thousand years, it shouldn't surprise anyone that today's christianity looks nothing like it started out as.

[Minimalist]

"Christianity flourished in a pagan empire when Christians simply wanted to live and let live.

The statement became true after the Edict of Milan when Constantine declared religious toleration throughout the empire.  Jesusism, which the estimates of scholars indicate had managed to attract between 5 and 10% of the population until then - and even that represented all sorts of xtian groups combined - began to grow once it had been granted legal status.  After 380 when Theodosius declared jesus shit to be the official religion it of course grew much more quickly but by then the orthodox were free to be the persecutors themselves.

As with almost anything else related to the Roman Republic/Empire any statement needs to be placed in time as things changed greatly depending on circumstances.

[vorlon13]

Always odd to hear people claim that even in America, we've abandoned Jesus. Despite the vast majority of the country bring christians, and celebrating christian holidays. Christians have been held back from making this country a complete theocracy, and that counts as persecution.

Christians in America don't follow the teachings of Jesus, capitalism and Jesus aren't really compatible philosophies. Maybe that's what they mean?

God slew Ananias and Sapphira for not being good commies. Damn well better believe capitalism and Jesusism are not mutually compatible because that's how God set it up.

[CapnAwesome]

Yeah, if there was anything consistent about the NT, it was that Jesus was anti wealth. So running an oligarchy, and talking about christian values doesn't really mesh. Then again, after two thousand years, it shouldn't surprise anyone that today's christianity looks nothing like it started out as.

Wonder what Jesus would think about people like Billy Graham making 25 million off his name.

[Chad32]

Straight to hell, according to the bible. You're not allowed to get into heaven if you had a good life here, for some reason.