Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[LadyForCamus]

He didn’t even say that much though.  The person who “vetted” the picture simply said the photo hadn’t been tampered with after the fact, and that it is, in fact, a photo of light.  He never mentioned anything about the source of light not being natural, whatever that even means.  Then Huggy makes the mind boggling leap from light to Jesus, and his evidence?  ‘Well, the priest said it was god,
and he was a good guy so...’ lol.

I wonder, if we were all instantly convinced, and converted to Christianity based on this picture, might Huggy think to himself that we’re a tad gullible?

Apparently you didn't read anything in the link you posted.

Here we go.  I present to you all, Huggy’s irrefutable proof of the Holy Spirit, so we can laugh and move on:

Spoiler alert:

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It’s a penis.

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https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/tag/george-j-lacy/

George J. Lacy, Investigator of Questioned Documents, and often hired by the FBI in that capacity, subjected the negative to every scientific test available. At a news conference, he stated, “To my knowledge, this is the first time in all the world’s history that a supernatural being has been photographed and scientifically vindicated.”

I was referencing the original document you posted; the scientific evaluation of the photo, which says nothing about the supernatural. It says, “light”. That the evaluator made an unscientific, personal leap from “light” to “supernatural” is irrelevant with regard to actual evidence.

[robvalue]

This is all really fascinating.

So Huggy is telling us that there's this thing that is beyond scientific understanding, but he understands it. He knows better than all the scientific minds in the world. It's really hard for me to get my head round this. It's as if he views science as some sort of primitive attempt to gain truth, and when that doesn't work, the big guns step in and use their feelings, incredulity and assertions instead. He doesn't seem to notice the immediate problem that everyone who does this can come up with any answer they like, and there's no way to tell who is right, if anyone.

(Either that or he's just parroting what some other guy said, as if that makes it true.)

This is part 8 of an excellent series, which I recommend watching all of, but this part is concerned with the kind of thinking Huggy is displaying here.

[Huggy Bear]

Common atheist tactic, when in doubt DEFLECT!

You clearly stated that according to "the second law of thermodynamics meaning that a god cannot be eternal.", My question to you is, if that is true then how can a photon be eternal?

Typical theistic use of false equivalence.

Gods and photons are not equivalent.

Photons do not display intelligence. Gods are always described as being intelligent beings. Photons do not change. Intelligence require change over time.

And as I posted earlier on in this thread

Every example we have of natural intelligence is a self-organising system that functions because of the laws of thermodynamics. Every example we have of natural intelligence is embodied in a physical environment which can be sensed and acted within. We have good reason to believe that every form of natural intelligence can ultimately be explained in terms of thermodynamics.

If you want to assert that natural intelligence exists in any other form (i.e. not AI) then give an example, evidence and at the very least a hypothesis on how it might function.

So if your god is intelligent (i.e. a being) then all the evidence is that it must also be subject to the laws of thermodynamics and therefore not eternal.

Give me one single example of intelligence that is not subject to the laws of thermodynamics.

*emphasis mine*

Not really

God is light - 1 John 1:5

Also an omnitient being cannot increase in intelligence...

[GrandizerII]

Typical theistic use of false equivalence.

Gods and photons are not equivalent.

Photons do not display intelligence. Gods are always described as being intelligent beings. Photons do not change. Intelligence require change over time.

And as I posted earlier on in this thread

*emphasis mine*

Not really

God is light - 1 John 1:5

Also an omnitient being cannot increase in intelligence...

Not physical light, symbolic light. "John" was known for using symbolic language.

[Huggy Bear]

This is all really fascinating.

So Huggy is telling us that there's this thing that is beyond scientific understanding, but he understands it. He knows better than all the scientific minds in the world. It's really hard for me to get my head round this. It's as if he views science as some sort of primitive attempt to gain truth, and when that doesn't work, the big guns step in and use their feelings, incredulity and assertions instead. He doesn't seem to notice the immediate problem that everyone who does this can come up with any answer they like, and there's no way to tell who is right, if anyone.

This is part 8 of an excellent series, which I recommend watching all of, but this part is concerned with the kind of thinking Huggy is displaying here.

*emphasis mine*

No, what I'm saying is that there is a spiritual realm just as much as there is a physical one, name one scientist that focuses on spiritual matters, if you can't then by default I understand the spiritual better than any scientist.

According to string theory there are multiple dimensions beyond the 4 we know to exist, are you going to dismiss that out of hand?

[LadyForCamus]

And, there it is. When we don’t have an explanation for the supernatural claims made in the Bible, just reference the Bible! Huggy, you are truely a one-trick-pony.

The sad irony here is that Huggy is incapable of realizing that this failed logic, and ridiculously low standard for “evidence” are exactly what we have been proposing in favor of Odin; a claim that he has essentially dismissed as ridiculous and improbable due to lack of evidence.

[I_am_not_mafia]

*emphasis mine*

Not really

God is light - 1 John 1:5

So if your god is made from light, how can it interact with the world without us seeing it?

How can something made from light be intelligent?

How can a structure of light (or even any other form of energy) persist without the use of matter?

Also an omnitient being cannot increase in intelligence...

Who said anything about increasing in intelligence?

I assume you meant to spell the world omniscient.

[Huggy Bear]

*emphasis mine*

Not really

God is light - 1 John 1:5

Also an omnitient being cannot increase in intelligence...

Not physical light, symbolic light. "John" was known for using symbolic language.

Really?


The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, - Isaiah 60:19

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. - Revelation 21:23

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: - Revelation 22:5

[GrandizerII]

Not physical light, symbolic light. "John" was known for using symbolic language.

Really?


The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, - Isaiah 60:19

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. - Revelation 21:23

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: - Revelation 22:5

We're talking about 1 John here. Why did you jump to other books in order to interpret the verse? And the books you quote here are still full of metaphors and symbolism, lol.

[Huggy Bear]

*emphasis mine*

Not really

God is light - 1 John 1:5

So if your god is made from light, how can it interact with the world without us seeing it?

How can something made from light be intelligent?

How can a structure of light (or even any other form of energy) persist without the use of matter?

That's the supernatural part...

Also an omnitient being cannot increase in intelligence...

Who said anything about increasing in intelligence?

I assume you meant to spell the world omniscient.

You did...

Photons do not change. Intelligence require change over time.

For I am the Lord, I change not - Malachi 3:6

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Really?


The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, - Isaiah 60:19

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. - Revelation 21:23

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: - Revelation 22:5

We're talking about 1 John here. Why did you jump to other books in order to interpret the verse? And the books you quote here are still full of metaphors and symbolism, lol.

Because you interpret scripture with scripture, that's why.

It doesn't get any more clearer than THE CITY HAD NO NEED OF THE SUN... FOR THE GLORY OF GOD DID LIGHTEN IT.

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And, there it is.  When we don’t have an explanation for the supernatural claims made in the Bible, just reference the Bible!  Huggy, you are truely a one-trick-pony.

The sad irony here is that Huggy is incapable of realizing that this failed logic, and ridiculously low standard for “evidence” are exactly what we have been proposing in favor of Odin; a claim that he has essentially dismissed as ridiculous and improbable due to lack of evidence.

However low you believe my standard of evidence to be, none of you has even come close to presenting anything remotely close for Odin, if so, link it.