Remove Vulgar Thread Titles

[Silver]

For the sake of dissent, since I seem to be on a rather disastrous roll today, I am going to agree with and support Neo.

[Shell B]

Oh, come on. Who could take that seriously?

Let me ask which response should not be taken seriously and why. Is not douche milder and less offensive than fucktard? Do I not try to fit in with the spirit of the forums? Is there not a difference between bawdiness and mean-spirited degradation?

All of the above. Douche is not milder than fucktard. They simply have different meanings. No, you don't try to fit into the spirit of the forums. I'd add that there is no real "spirit of the forums." People post whatever they post. However, if you're asserting that the forum has a "bawdy spirit," I'd say your efforts have been failures. You mostly just sound smarmy, and I don't believe you calling atheists douches was at all you trying to fit in. That'd be a weird way to try to fit in on an atheist forum.

FWIW bullshit is an interesting word in that actually does have a very narrow meaning for which there is no adequate substitute. It applies to statements presented as facts that the speaker knows, or should know, to be unfounded assertions, often with the intent to impress.

Everyone knows what bullshit means, neo. There are also plenty of adequate substitutes. Around here, we say malarky, bunk, horse pucky, horse shit, etc. My husband says bollocks. There's bunkum, baloney, poppycock, nonsense, stuff and nonsense, hogwash, rubbish, etc.

I do not dispute that I have said some unwarranted nasty things but I have also been quick to apologize and ask forgiveness. I have traded cutting insults with other forum members but more often than not with people who already know that I otherwise respect them.

That's fine. It's odd to expect other people to behave better than you do.

Theists are second-class members on AF and always will be. I'm a big boy and can accept that. I expect people to assume the worst. A the same time, CL correctly pointed out that I started this suggestion thread without any religious motivation. Is it really so inconceivable that I have different notions of decorum that have nothing to do with my religious beliefs?

I don't feel that way. For what it's worth, I thought it was more sanctimonious than religious.

[LadyForCamus]

By what means can one objectively conclude that “douche” is less offensive than “fucktard”? What about “douche bag” versus “douche tool”? Which is more offensive? And, are those two more, less, or equally as offensive as simply, “douche”? What’s your process? I’m interested to hear this.

[Neo-Scholastic]

All of the above. Douche is not milder than fucktard.

We have different opinions. I believe my opinion would be more widely accepted.

...if you're asserting that the forum has a "bawdy spirit," I'd say your efforts have been failures.

Apparently, so, but not for lack of trying.

and I don't believe you calling atheists douches was at all you trying to fit in. That'd be a weird way to try to fit in on an atheist forum.

Now you are not being fair. I was very specific - athiests who objected to the use of gospel music at a celebration of MLK's. The degree to which the word douche is vulgar, we have already discussed.

It's odd to expect other people to behave better than you do.

Except I don't. If there was a rule, I would expect everyone, including myself, to try to adhere to it.

I thought it was more sanctimonious than religious.

I do not see how I could have written the OP in a way that would have prevented you from interpreting it that way. I believe your opinion of the OP has nothing to do with what it actually says or how it was said but rather that it was written by me. How would you to rewrite it to sound less 'sanctimonious'?

[Catholic_Lady]

Yeah, that's what I meant by "to keep thread titles less vulgar/bigoted", lol.

Please don't make me go to the trouble of explaining the difference between 'less vulgar/bigoted' and 'banning vulgarity'.

Boru

Well, that is what I meant. And I see no reason to give him crap for it when he stated his suggestion respectfully on the SUGGESTION FORUM. Also, I agree with him. I would support a ban on vulgar thread titles, so I guess I suck too.

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Generally I agree. Of course there is a continuum, from a private conversation with a friend to an instruction manual. At the same time, a perfectly good and appropriate Anglo-Saxon word from the Basic English lexicon is almost always available. No one appreciates a David Foster Wallace wanna-be.

And just to be absolutely clear I'm only talking about thread titles where it is already the express intent of the staff that titles be descriptive of the subject to be discussed. We already have a  "Click Bait" rule. That's a judgement call also.



Fuck is probably the least descriptive word precisely because it is used as a synonym for a very large number of words with very different meanings. And there is nothing "posh" about avoiding vulgarities. It's about creating a decent environment for all participants. Some graffiti is actually quite evocative and well-executed but I don't want to live in a city where every other building is covered with it.

Buy why is it considered more "decent?" Because it's not the "common" vernacular. It all boils down to people feeling better than other people and being offended for the sake of feeling superior.

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I really don't get why Chad is getting so much crap slung at him from some people. All he did was make a suggestion in the suggestion subforum to keep thread titles a little less vulgar/bigoted. That's the whole point of the subform, and I don't see why anyone seems to feel personally offended by a suggestion for cleaner language in thread titles.

I have a feeling if it had been either me, mooney, or shadow making this same suggestion, we wouldnt be getting attacked for it.

I would have treated you the same way, for what it's worth.

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Uh...Neo?  Care to respond to this?

Oh shit.

You werent one of the people who attacked him personally, so I wasn't referring to you.

[Shell B]

Why would I care if it was written by you, neo? Now you just have a persecution complex. I object 100% to the idea that swears are "vulgar" and need to be stemmed in any way, shape or form. It could have been written by my husband, and I'd have objected. No one who knows me at all would think my objection had anything to do with who wrote the OP. I have a well-documented disdain for promoting "better" language and a love of common language.

How would I re-write it to sound less sanctimonious? Hmmm. I think writing it in any way is sanctimonious. I loathe the idea that using swears somehow makes a person less intelligent, less worthy or not good enough. I couldn't support that idea written in any form.

[Neo-Scholastic]

By what means can one objectively conclude  that “douche” is less offensive than “fucktard”?  What about “douche bag” versus “douche tool”?  Which is more offensive? And, are those two more, less, or equally as offensive as simply, “douche”?  What’s your process?  I’m interested to hear this.

Who said anything about "objective". It's based on consensus judgement. I suggest you try asking 10 or more people of different ages and backgrounds which word is more offensive. I guess I'll have to do the same.

[RoadRunner79]

1) each is indicative of the topic, 2) bullshit and douche are much milder  than fucktard, for example,  and 3) I do try to play along with the general irreverent spirit of AF but there is difference between bawdiness and mean-spirited degradation.

And I knew someone would dig up old titles of mine to paint me as a hypocrite. I'm proposing a rule that I would agree to follow myself and one I feel would improve the forums. Are you suggesting that someone cannot propose removing unhealthy vending machines from the lunch room just because he ate a candy bar from one a couple times?

I disagree. Douche is worse.

^^^
And this is exactly what would make a new rule about vulgar language in titles impractical.

I propose we get rid of any rules in which a complete agreement by everyone as to their enforcement cannot be agreed upon.

[Brian37]

I demand a ban on anyone who starts a thread shitting on ABBA. What? I am a persecuted minority.

[Shell B]

ABBA is sooooo bad. Tibs made me watch some ABBA musical. It was cringey as fuck!