You're a theist against immigration?

[Angrboda]

My main point was, as a Christian, I do not believe we (Christians) should be using Old Testament laws as an excuse to bully immigrants, especially when Jesus taught us to love our neighbors, and to care for the least of these. He basically taught to be just like the Good Samaritan.

I think you've got things backwards. He, the OP, was arguing that bullying illegal immigrants is incompatible with the morality expressed in the Old Testament.

I believe WoG was pointing to a similar inconsistency.

[JairCrawford]

My main point was, as a Christian, I do not believe we (Christians) should be using Old Testament laws as an excuse to bully immigrants, especially when Jesus taught us to love our neighbors, and to care for the least of these. He basically taught to be just like the Good Samaritan.

I think you've got things backwards. He, the OP, was arguing that bullying illegal immigrants is incompatible with the morality expressed in the Old Testament.

Oh no I agreed with the OP. It was the second poster I believe? that posted other scriptures from the Old Testament that speak badly of outsiders, and it's from those scriptures that certain people are using to argue that this whole immigration crackdown debacle is biblical. Well, it may be biblical but it is not Christian.

Edit: It was the third post and it was by WoG. I was under the impression that he was showcasing the contradictory nature of those passages versus the one posted in the OP. I do not contest that they are contradictory as from a literal standpoint, they undoubtedly are. I was expounding on how some modern Christians are misusing those scriptures today.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

It's time to read the First Commandment =

Exodus 34:11-16 (TLB) = "11 Your part of the agreement is to obey all of my commandments; then I will drive out from before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites.

12 “Be very, very careful never to compromise with the people there in the land where you are going, for if you do, you will soon be following their evil ways. 13 Instead, you must break down their heathen altars, smash the obelisks they worship, and cut down their shameful idols. 14 For you must worship no other gods, but only Jehovah, for he is a God who claims absolute loyalty and exclusive devotion.

15 “No, do not make a peace treaty of any kind with the people living in the land, for they are spiritual prostitutes, committing adultery against me by sacrificing to their gods. If you become friendly with them and one of them invites you to go with him and worship his idol, you are apt to do it. 16 And you would accept their daughters, who worship other gods, as wives for your sons—and then your sons would commit adultery against me by worshiping their wives’ gods."

Do you need a slave?  Buy an immigrant's children.

Leviticus 25:45-46 TLB) = "45 and you may purchase the children of the foreigners living among you, even though they have been born in your land. 46 They will be permanent slaves for you to pass on to your children after you; but your brothers, the people of Israel, shall not be treated so."

And it makes me mad that 'Christians' try to take these words out of context to support abominable actions.

I am convinced these words are not meant to be taken literally. Lots of ancient politics went into play when writing those laws especially partaining to the nations around them. It's completely contradictory to the New Testament teachings of Christ.

The primary purpose of the OT is to point prophetically to Christ. When people start trying to use these ancient law passages literally for situations today, it can cause problems.

As for the OP, yes! I know you quoted an OT passage as well but that does line up with the teachings of Christ. Good Samaritan anyone? What about caring for the least of these? He said that was extremely important.

Sorry I just had to rant for a minute there. I try to get on to my fellow Christians about these things and sometimes they get it, other times they don't. A lot of times it depends on how big their golden elephant is. That can be a doozy.

If you are a Christian then you should be completely obedient and loyal to your leader because Yahweh appointed him to rule over you.  So if you disobey your leader then you are pissing on Yahweh and he will toss your ass into the lake of fire.    That's the biblical doctrine in two sentences.

[JairCrawford]

And it makes me mad that 'Christians' try to take these words out of context to support abominable actions.

I am convinced these words are not meant to be taken literally. Lots of ancient politics went into play when writing those laws especially partaining to the nations around them. It's completely contradictory to the New Testament teachings of Christ.

The primary purpose of the OT is to point prophetically to Christ. When people start trying to use these ancient law passages literally for situations today, it can cause problems.

As for the OP, yes! I know you quoted an OT passage as well but that does line up with the teachings of Christ. Good Samaritan anyone? What about caring for the least of these? He said that was extremely important.

Sorry I just had to rant for a minute there. I try to get on to my fellow Christians about these things and sometimes they get it, other times they don't. A lot of times it depends on how big their golden elephant is. That can be a doozy.

If you are a Christian then you should be completely obedient and loyal to your leader because Yahweh appointed him to rule over you.  So if you disobey your leader then you are pissing on Yahweh and he will toss your ass into the lake of fire.    That's the biblical doctrine in two sentences.

The lake of fire was not a taught theological concept during the times of the Old Testament writings. IIRC, that description is unique to the Apocalypse of John (Revelation), and New Testament teachings are very different in regards to following rulers. Rulers are not taught or described as appointed in the same way in the NT as they were in the OT. In fact Jesus simply states to "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars", which is much more nonchalant. Clearly He is more concerned with Kingdom of Heaven concepts than fussing over worldly rulers.

More to the point, the message of Christ is to love your neighbor as yourself. The debacle at the border is not a good indicator of this great commandment at all.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

If you are a Christian then you should be completely obedient and loyal to your leader because Yahweh appointed him to rule over you.  So if you disobey your leader then you are pissing on Yahweh and he will toss your ass into the lake of fire.    That's the biblical doctrine in two sentences.

The lake of fire was not a taught theological concept during the times of the Old Testament writings. IIRC, that description is unique to the Apocalypse of John (Revelation), and New Testament teachings are very different in regards to following rulers. Rulers are not taught or described as appointed in the same way in the NT as they were in the OT. In fact Jesus simply states to "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars", which is much more nonchalant. Clearly He is more concerned with Kingdom of Heaven concepts than fussing over worldly rulers.

More to the point, the message of Christ is to love your neighbor as yourself. The debacle at the border is not a good indicator of this great commandment at all.

The only people Yeshua (Jesus) gave a fig about were the Israelites.  He never interacted with the Gentiles and he told his dummies to stay away from them.  He didn't say one word about any Gentiles getting into his kingdom of God.  Jesus was a bigot.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

 I am just educated on theology

Pity that such an education doesn't seem to include coursework on grammar, syntax, spelling and punctuation.

somewhere between exoddus to whatever the fifth book of bible is called

Any chance of getting your tuition refunded?

Boru

[JairCrawford]

The lake of fire was not a taught theological concept during the times of the Old Testament writings. IIRC, that description is unique to the Apocalypse of John (Revelation), and New Testament teachings are very different in regards to following rulers. Rulers are not taught or described as appointed in the same way in the NT as they were in the OT. In fact Jesus simply states to "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars", which is much more nonchalant. Clearly He is more concerned with Kingdom of Heaven concepts than fussing over worldly rulers.

More to the point, the message of Christ is to love your neighbor as yourself. The debacle at the border is not a good indicator of this great commandment at all.

The only people Yeshua (Jesus) gave a fig about were the Israelites.  He never interacted with the Gentiles and he told his dummies to stay away from them.  He didn't say one word about any Gentiles getting into his kingdom of God.  Jesus was a bigot.

Actually Jesus didn't seem to like fig trees all that much so I could hardly see Him giving figs... ok, I'm sorry, that was terrible. I shall smack myself for that horrid attempt at humor.

That's an interesting theory accumulated from textual criticism I'm sure, but it is speculative. When it comes to the whole historical Jesus search, there are a lot of really interesting ideas and theories, but at the end of the day they are speculative.

Some say He only cared about Israel, others disagree. Some say He may have been an Essene, others say He was a Pharisee (who didn't play nice with the rest). Some say He was a miracle worker like the witch doctors of the time, others say He was purely an apocalyptic preacher who thought the end was nigh. All very interesting ideas, but all speculative.

I beleive He cared for more than just Israel. Otherwise why would He use the parable of the Good Samaritan?

[WinterHold]

All humans are mere dust particles shaped in the picture of a man or woman. There is no difference between White, Black, Hispanic or Asian, these races exist so we know and recognize each other only, closing borders and building walls is just the destruction of this natural, beautiful human fact: we are a specie of different faiths and different practices, we should believe in what we want, and let others believe in what they want.

From Islam, this is the verse that I see most suitable for this:

https://quran.com/49/13?translations=

Sura 49, The Quran:
Sahih International

(13) O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

We are all brothers and sisters in race. Color is only there so we know one another. Human is the password, and borders must be opened.

[Angrboda]

All humans are mere dust particles shaped in the picture of a man or woman. There is no difference between White, Black, Hispanic or Asian, these races exist so we know and recognize each other only, closing borders and building walls is just the destruction of this natural, beautiful human fact: we are a specie of different faiths and different practices, we should believe in what we want, and let others believe in what they want.

From Islam, this is the verse that I see most suitable for this:

https://quran.com/49/13?translations=

Sura 49, The Quran:
Sahih International

(13) O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

We are all brothers and sisters in race. Color is only there so we know one another. Human is the password, and borders must be opened.

Have you informed your government of this?

[WinterHold]

All humans are mere dust particles shaped in the picture of a man or woman. There is no difference between White, Black, Hispanic or Asian, these races exist so we know and recognize each other only, closing borders and building walls is just the destruction of this natural, beautiful human fact: we are a specie of different faiths and different practices, we should believe in what we want, and let others believe in what they want.

From Islam, this is the verse that I see most suitable for this:



We are all brothers and sisters in race. Color is only there so we know one another. Human is the password, and borders must be opened.

Have you informed your government of this?

I don't have a government. Prison awaits me if I preach this in public.