Peterson's 12 Rules For Life, have you heard of this?

[The Grand Nudger]

Depends on who you ask.  If you ask the alt right propagandists, white people are being cast as the bad guys by radical leftist cryptomarxists out to white genocide the christian male.

If you ask those radical leftist cryptomarxists, they'll tell you that racists are the bad guys.

[robvalue]

Hmm... well, I can't help being racist, but I try not to be a white guy.

[The Grand Nudger]

See!  They got to you, you're in white erasure.  Civilization is doomed!

[bennyboy]

The area in which we do not agree is your perpetuation of the white victimization complex, the language and examples you use to defend and assert it, and it's ultimate origin as a part of your positions.

I think you and I define equality differently. I define it as non-differential treatment based on statutes and ideas that apply equally to all, without regard to demographics or to station in life. To you, it's more complicated than that-- where injustice is perceived, then it must be corrected, even if it involves differential treatment (which you justify because some groups have been differentially treated, and negatively so, perhaps for a very long time).

This is immediately obvious. If a black guy calls someone "trailer park trash," and the recipient of that comment responds, "fuck you, nigger!" this isn't seen by anyone as an equal exchange-- even if they have the exact same economic status, to the penny. Both comments are racist and hateful, but they aren't really viewed as being in the same category, because of the history behind them.

All through this thread, I've been a voice for moderation. However, since it is the narrative of the left which I'm currently attempt to moderate, you've determined that since I don't seem to be flying the same banner you do, I must be antithetical to the views you think you hold-- about equality and fair play. But that's not the case-- I just think the way that the PC Left tries to do this-- by restricting language and by shutting down antithetical views or discussion, is all kinds of wrong-- you literally couldn't make a worse way to restore equality.

I'll keep saying that the way to equality is to establish the rights of individuals, and to address individual complaints with zeal.

Maybe in the South, where complaints made by black people are not GOING to be addressed with any real interest in fairness, my view is too idealistic. But even then, I don't think reframing language in demographics and euphemism is the right way to go-- demanding individual rights, and collectively showing a willingness to FIGHT for them, would be better in my opinion. Let it be known that those who stand against individual rights will be identified and forced at gunpoint to extend those rights, if necessary.

[The Grand Nudger]

The area in which we do not agree is your perpetuation of the white victimization complex, the language and examples you use to defend and assert it, and it's ultimate origin as a part of your positions.

I think you and I define equality differently.  I define it as non-differential treatment based on statutes and ideas that apply equally to all, without regard to demographics or to station in life.  To you, it's more complicated than that-- where injustice is perceived, then it must be corrected, even if it involves differential treatment (which you justify because some groups have been differentially treated, and negatively so, perhaps for a very long time).

There's no strict necessity of differential treatment, and remedying the differential treatment that has lead to inequality in the first place is not differential treatment.  If I'm giving one guy 10 apples, and the other guy 5 apples, if I then proceed to give the second guy five more apples and the first guy none......

-but, sure, in a place where it's been demonstrated that..for whatever reason™ they just cant stop being racist assholes, I can see a case for real differential treatment, rather than the "differential treatment" of the white victimization complex.  

This is immediately obvious.  If a black guy calls someone "trailer park trash," and the recipient of that comment responds, "fuck you, nigger!" this isn't seen by anyone as an equal exchange-- even if they have the exact same economic status, to the penny.  Both comments are racist and hateful, but they aren't really viewed as being in the same category, because of the history behind them.

Technically ones classist and the other is racist.  You see, people aren't trailer park trash on account of their skin color...and..usually, not even on account of living in a trailer park.

They have to go the extra mile, lol.  

All through this thread, I've been a voice for moderation.  However, since it is the narrative of the left which I'm currently attempt to moderate, you've determined that since I don't seem to be flying the same banner you do, I must be antithetical to the views you think you hold-- about equality and fair play.  But that's not the case-- I just think the way that the PC Left tries to do this-- by restricting language and by shutting down antithetical views or discussion, is all kinds of wrong-- you literally couldn't make a worse way to restore equality.

I'll keep saying that the way to equality is to establish the rights of individuals, and to address individual complaints with zeal.

Maybe in the South, where complaints made by black people are not GOING to be addressed with any real interest in fairness, my view is too idealistic.  But even then, I don't think reframing language in demographics and euphemism is the right way to go-- demanding individual rights, and collectively showing a willingness to FIGHT for them, would be better in my opinion.  Let it be known that those who stand against individual rights will be identified and forced at gunpoint to extend those rights, if necessary.

As long as it's not fighting for them™ by telling people to stop calling them niggers, stop perpetuating racial myths, or demanding that we end the differential treatment that leads to inequality...or..what?  

Benny, you're tied into a knot on this one. PC and SJ issues are -exactly- what you think should be done, but your perception of both is not informed by that..it has, instead, been formed by the voices of normalizing propaganda. I get that you may be unfamiliar, you are in S. Korea..after all... and your lens into this thing appears to come entirely from the internet and from parody. Peterson and South Park and Libs getting Pwnt on what I presume are "skeptic" channels you watch. This is the route that white supremacy has chosen. They're the people who manufacture the red pill. It seems like medicine, but it's not.....it's fucking poison.

[bennyboy]

Technically ones classist and the other is racist.  You see, people aren't trailer park trash on account of their skin color...and..usually, not even on account of living in a trailer park.

Have you ever, in your life, seen someone called "trailer park trash" who wasn't white?

As long as it's not fighting for them™ by telling people to stop calling them niggers, stop perpetuating racial myths,  or demanding that we end the differential treatment that leads to inequality...or..what?  

You can tell people not to use the n-word; as far as I'm considered, you can go ahead and let them know how you feel with your fists.  You can shout at them that you think it's a hateful word, and that they shouldn't use it.  If the intent of an action is to reinforce the rights of other citizens to go through their day unmolested by bigotry, then I'd applaud that.  But I would hope, and I doubt my hope would be realized, that you'd do the same thing for another man, if he's on the receiving end of "trailer park trash" comments.

[The Grand Nudger]

Have you ever, in your life, seen someone called "trailer park trash" who wasn't white?

LOL, yes.  I'm from florida..there are alot of trailer parks.  The further north you go the more likely people in trailer parks are to be white..and the vast majority -of- trailer park trash -will- be white....but that's brute force of demographics forya.  

One term is not a comment on their ethnicity, it's a comment on either their economic status..or their general demeanor and disposition towards themselves and others, shall we say, lol? It may seek to denigrate, but not on the basis of their white skin. Can you understand the difference between that..and the other term?

As long as it's not fighting for them™ by telling people to stop calling them niggers, stop perpetuating racial myths,  or demanding that we end the differential treatment that leads to inequality...or..what?  

Nobody has ever argued any of these things, because they all involve specific instances which can be contested.

PC and SJ issues argue those things - that's the platform.  You argue against the pc left and sjws.  Figure it out.

[bennyboy]

Have you ever, in your life, seen someone called "trailer park trash" who wasn't white?

LOL, yes.  I'm from florida..there are alot of trailer parks.  The further north you go the more likely people in trailer parks are to be white..and the vast majority -of- trailer park trash -will- be white....but that's brute force of demographics forya.  

One term is not a comment on their ethnicity, it's a comment on either their economic status..or their general demeanor and disposition towards themselves and others, shall we say, lol?  It may seek to denigrate, but not on the basis of their white skin.  Can you understand the difference between that..and the other term?

Of course. You are saying that "trailer park trash" isn't a racial demographic at all. I'm pretty dubious about that, but if in your extensive experience with hearing people being called "trailer park trash," you've seen plenty of people called it who aren't white, then I have to defer to your direct experience. I can only refer to my media experiences in that regard.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and can you understand the difference between the terms..or not?  Do you really think that one white person calling another white person trailer park trash..is a racist epithet?

What..does the one white person hate white people, are they trailer park trash on account of their whiteness, in the estimation of the other white guy....or something?

[bennyboy]

PC and SJ issues argue those things - that's the platform.  You argue against the pc left and sjws.  Figure it out.

Have I argued in favor of racism? I mean-- I haven't been getting a lot of sleep, so you never know-- but that doesn't sound like me.

I argue against the use of demographic identity to establish a narrative of victimhood and oppression, and then the extension of that concept through a guilt-of-association of ideas to shut down discourse. You say it's not common, and that those specific examples one can produce don't represent PC Left™.

I'd say my view of the PC Left is one of intolerance, and that it is expressed thus: as soon as certain trigger words, ideas or conditions are met, the PC Left person will do one or both of two things: (1) draw a line straight to the alt-right, with all the idiocy it entails (you've done this); or (2) just start shouting epithets (racist, sexist, "carrying the white supremacist script" and so on) such that no actual conversation can proceed.

When people start saying "La la la la. I'm not going to listen, because the 5 seconds of script I'm focusing on already show me that I'm right, and I've established what you are!" then we have no chance to discuss. When people are encouraged to use this stance as their norm, then the IQ of the society on the whole has dropped about 20 points.