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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2018 at 2:18 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
LFC, if you or anyone else is interested, there's a 6 minute video where he explains what I just said. I disagree with him in the beginning when he says he doesn't think God gives us a "second chance" after we die (I believe He does), but I agree with everything else.
He explains the fact that Hell is merely an exercise of free will, and not a punishment from God.
https://youtu.be/7-hTfkMrET0
He explains why Hell has to exist in order for God to be good.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 2:30 pm
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2018 at 2:32 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:He explains the fact that Hell is merely an exercise of free will, and not a punishment from God.
Freewill does not justify hell and the fact he allows it to exist makes it a punishment .
Quote:He explains why Hell has to exist in order for God to be good.
The reason fails .Their is no logical reason that hell need exist for god to be good a good god would have no need for hell .
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 2:33 pm
(August 29, 2018 at 2:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My thoughts in simpler terms:
Hell exists because God is not a tyrant who is going to force us to choose Him. He gives us the choice to choose God, or to choose "not God."
Hell is not a dark cave with fire and little demons running around torturing you. It is simply a separation from God.
Since God is Himself pure love, by separating our souls from God in the afterlife, you are separating yourself from beauty, joy, and love. That is why Hell sucks. Not because of torture or punishment.
Just because you are separating from 'pure love', why would that mean you are separated from love in all cases? Why would it imply you are separated from all beauty and joy? All it seems to mean is that you are separated from the 'pure' versions of these. But that is the case in life anyway, right?
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 2:38 pm
(August 29, 2018 at 2:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: He explains the fact that Hell is merely an exercise of free will, and not a punishment from God.
You might want to get on the Pope Phone, or whatever you guys use, to inform "Father" that he needs to straighten out Matthew ASAP. The poor apostle seemed to think it was a punishment. We can keep the parable of the talents, but Matthew 25:46 needs to go!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 2:42 pm
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2018 at 2:43 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:Since God is Himself pure love, by separating our souls from God in the afterlife, you are separating yourself from beauty, joy, and love. That is why Hell sucks. Not because of torture or punishment.
1. Any god that would allow that kind of separation is not good or loving he's a neglectful parent .
2. This is pure Stockholm logic.
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 3:18 pm
(August 29, 2018 at 2:42 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:Since God is Himself pure love, by separating our souls from God in the afterlife, you are separating yourself from beauty, joy, and love. That is why Hell sucks. Not because of torture or punishment.
1. Any god that would allow that kind of separation is not good or loving he's a neglectful parent .
2. This is pure Stockholm logic.
So you think God should force us to be with Him even when we don't want to?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 3:18 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 12:21 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Christians, would you do this to your own children? If your child ran away, and came back a month later, filthy and in tears, saying, “mommy/daddy I miss you so much. I’m so alone and afraid. I’m sorry I left; I just want to come home and cuddle with you on the couch,” would you tell them it’s ‘too late’, and shut the door in their face for good? Why or why not?
Have you never read of the prodigal son? 
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 3:20 pm
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2018 at 3:22 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(August 29, 2018 at 2:38 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: (August 29, 2018 at 2:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: He explains the fact that Hell is merely an exercise of free will, and not a punishment from God.
You might want to get on the Pope Phone, or whatever you guys use, to inform "Father" that he needs to straighten out Matthew ASAP. The poor apostle seemed to think it was a punishment. We can keep the parable of the talents, but Matthew 25:46 needs to go!
In Catholicism, we believe it to be an exercise of free will, rather than a punishment from God:
https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/18/arts/...gewanted=1
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 3:29 pm
(August 29, 2018 at 3:20 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 29, 2018 at 2:38 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: You might want to get on the Pope Phone, or whatever you guys use, to inform "Father" that he needs to straighten out Matthew ASAP. The poor apostle seemed to think it was a punishment. We can keep the parable of the talents, but Matthew 25:46 needs to go!
In Catholicism, we believe it to be an exercise of free will, rather than a punishment from God:
https://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/18/arts/...gewanted=1
Re-interpreting fiction can be a fun and useful exercise -- especially when it helps maintain your market share.
Still, it's a pity about poor Matthew. It's strange how someone supposedly close to the source needs correction many centuries later. It's almost as though you people make it up to suit your preferences and needs.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 29, 2018 at 3:58 pm
(This post was last modified: August 29, 2018 at 3:59 pm by Amarok.)
(August 29, 2018 at 3:18 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 29, 2018 at 2:42 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: 1. Any god that would allow that kind of separation is not good or loving he's a neglectful parent .
2. This is pure Stockholm logic.
So you think God should force us to be with Him even when we don't want to? I said nothing about force a truly good god wouldn't need to use force
Quote:In Catholicism, we believe it to be an exercise of free will, rather than a punishment from God:
The free will defense cannot justify hell
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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