North Korea ready for "Holy War"

[Autumnlicious]

One thing I learned from "Imperial Hubris - Why the West is losing the war on Terrorism" is that if there is a war, simply pounding the enemy from the air and destroying his infrastructure won't work at all (See - Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, et al.)

For there to be a successful war, a nation must utterly destroy the enemy's fighting force and all who support it (civilians included). Anything less than that, and you sowed the ground for guerrilla warfare, constant violence and a never ending supply of tin pot dictators coasting off of the old guard.

Of course, successful wars are bloody and monstrous.

As Patton said: "No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country."

I fear that if North Korea invades, all the US will do is just pound it from the air. Or, like Iraq and Afghanistan, invade but not kill all of the opposition (like it did for the Baath, Sunni and Shiite militias -- or Taliban, tribal militias).

The cancer must be completely removed, lest it metastasize like in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Leaving in any vestige of the enemy's body, even right down to local administrators, only heightens risk for a prolonged and attrition laded conflict.

[Anomalocaris]

The cancer must be completely removed, lest it metastasize like in Afghanistan or Iraq.

The difference is the head of North Korea can't live without his Hennessy cognac, ten-thousand tape video library, bevy of concubines and dialysis machine.

[Ubermensch]

Eliminating all traces of loyallty to the North Korean government would lead to the deaths of tens of millions of innocent civillians, better to cut the head off the snake and then buy out its successors.

[downbeatplumb]

Oh whoops, my bad. I clearly wasn't paying attention. Sorry downbeatplumbs.

Dont mention it old bean.

I was unaware I came accross as american.
It must be my poor spelling.

[Meatball]

I don't think it would be very difficult to "win hearts and minds" in North Korea. Those people are starving. A sandwich wrapped in an American flag would go a long way if done right.

[Autumnlicious]

Eliminating all traces of loyallty to the North Korean government would lead to the deaths of tens of millions of innocent civillians, better to cut the head off the snake and then buy out its successors.

I don't think it would be very difficult to "win hearts and minds" in North Korea. Those people are starving. A sandwich wrapped in an American flag would go a long way if done right.

This is the same kind of hubris that Westerners seem to have had in the planning and follow through of Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and Lebanon.

The buy out strategy hasn't worked one bit in Afghanistan, for example. There are numerous cases of tribal chieftains just taking the money and doing whatever the hell they want.

I'm sorry, but money is not the ultimate end all, be all, as many Westerners seem to devoutly believe. In Islamic countries with poor quality of life, it is religion. I fear that in North Korea, it would be devotion to the Party. As there is a lack of hard information regarding the cultural biases of North Korea, I hold that statements containing the thought of "buying them out" is not only woefully inadequate - it is stupid. Stupid in being overly confident, western-centric and overly self-absorbed.

These people in North Korea, for the most part, have the capacity to be quite, quite different to us. A lack of information is dangerous. Very dangerous.

[Violet]

Eliminating all traces of loyallty to the North Korean government would lead to the deaths of tens of millions of innocent civillians, better to cut the head off the snake and then buy out its successors.

Half-assed warring may be very common nowadays, but it is also only half effective. There would be no 'insurgents' for us to deal with in the middle east if we were to kill and then annex the countries there. It's one hell of a lot easier to defend your borders if you know where the hell they are drawn. It is also cheaper, because you know where your enemies are coming from (that being outside your borders), and don't have to spend so many resources on defending everywhere within.

The creature you have mistaken for a snake is a hydra, and every head you cut off will have several more replace it, until you finally are lost as to where the body of the hydra lies for all of the heads. Buying people out is itself an expensive process, and there is no guarantee that they won't just turn the money upon you. Pieces of paper and a few words do not a truce make... and serve better for the cheaters of this world than the fools who play war-fair.

Civilians are also not innocent... from whence do soldiers come? Infact they are support troops, the great cogs that fuel the war machine. Without them, what are the other soldiers even fighting for? They are easier to kill in larger number than the other soldiers, and exterminating them can be done somewhat cheaply and to great effect. Maybe you don't see it as honorable to kill someone that isn't yet directly threatening you... but when you've let honor get in the way of a war: you've become vulnerable to enemies that haven't let it get in the way.

I don't think it would be very difficult to "win hearts and minds" in North Korea. Those people are starving. A sandwich wrapped in an American flag would go a long way if done right.

That might have your desired effect upon some of them... but most would likely just eat and be done with a good meal. It would be expensive and difficult to smuggle sandwiches in (flag or not) and spread to the populace. Not to mention the potential consequences for eating food given freely by americans... especially were a flag to be found in their possession.

Do we even know if those people are starving? Here I thought the greatest problem with North Korea was precisely that we have little understanding of what is going on within its borders. And even if they are starving, and sandwiches wrapped in american flags are distributed effectively... how have you won but their stomaches?

[Ashendant]

Do we even know if those people are starving? Here I thought the greatest problem with North Korea was precisely that we have little understanding of what is going on within its borders. And even if they are starving, and sandwiches wrapped in american flags are distributed effectively... how have you won but their stomaches?

You miss one important point Funding, the reason why Afghanistan is being hard is because Saudi Arabian priests(using money given by to governments to stop rebellions) and Iran are funding insugents

[Ubermensch]

Eliminating all traces of loyallty to the North Korean government would lead to the deaths of tens of millions of innocent civillians, better to cut the head off the snake and then buy out its successors.

Half-assed warring may be very common nowadays, but it is also only half effective. There would be no 'insurgents' for us to deal with in the middle east if we were to kill and then annex the countries there. It's one hell of a lot easier to defend your borders if you know where the hell they are drawn. It is also cheaper, because you know where your enemies are coming from (that being outside your borders), and don't have to spend so many resources on defending everywhere within.

The creature you have mistaken for a snake is a hydra, and every head you cut off will have several more replace it, until you finally are lost as to where the body of the hydra lies for all of the heads. Buying people out is itself an expensive process, and there is no guarantee that they won't just turn the money upon you. Pieces of paper and a few words do not a truce make... and serve better for the cheaters of this world than the fools who play war-fair.

Civilians are also not innocent... from whence do soldiers come? Infact they are support troops, the great cogs that fuel the war machine. Without them, what are the other soldiers even fighting for? They are easier to kill in larger number than the other soldiers, and exterminating them can be done somewhat cheaply and to great effect. Maybe you don't see it as honorable to kill someone that isn't yet directly threatening you... but when you've let honor get in the way of a war: you've become vulnerable to enemies that haven't let it get in the way.

On the contrary, as far as I'm concerned honour and warfare do not go together at all. I'm merely stating certain problems that are inherent in properly removing the threat North Korea poses. If the wholesale slaughter of non-combatants is necessary for ultimate victory, then of course it should be pursued ruthlessly. It just doesn't seem like that's the kind of thing that would quickly be forgotten by either the Koreans, or the international community at large. One would hope however that there is an easier way to ensure victory.

[Autumnlicious]

Victory is not some dime store convenience or purchasable sundry.


Easy? Pfft.