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My proofs for Islam
#1
My proofs for Islam
Salam everyone,

I hope you are all doing well.  I will be presenting proofs for Islam. I been thinking a lot of how I should go through this.

One thing I realized is Quran can be read in whatever a way person wants to. All though there is a wisdom in the order it was completed with, we don't have to start from 1st to 2nd chapter.

When I think of the problems I had with Quran, it was a series.... it started off like:

1st time reading it all grade 7 in English - I was like "where the hell is a proof for God????".

When I really emotionally invested myself it - it took form of understanding alongside my illness.  This made religion really complicated for me. I had ALOT OF MISCONCEPTIONS.

And one of the big problems that haunted me emotionally was humans going to hell.  I had the impression, and first impressions are hard to get rid of, but that most human were going to hell, because very little understood the "true creed".

One of the first questions I asked a Muslim religiously and emotionally invested, was what defines righteousness.  What makes a person good if you can be good and of different religions have different concepts of that, why are we all united on a word called "goodness" if we all have different concepts of it.

And I remember when there were awful translations that implied Mohamad didn't manifest miracles all in excuse that ancients were sent them but denied them. That verse haunted me for a while, and it was the one and main one that made me leave Islam.

Then trying to refute Quran, I came up with many problems because I had contradictory conceptions of Quran.

That said,  I remember what I recalled of Quran when I became Atheist, and I remember what I recalled of Quran when I solved my problems with it and was a Deist, reading it, trying to give it another chance.

The Quran is not suppose to put you in hard place,  either understand this or that's it you perish. It has levels, and different mix of truth and falsehood to different humans.

The family of the reminder know how to unravel it's wonders and mysteries, and bring about it's clear insights.

So far none of what I said is a proof of anything. It's just a personal testimony.

But how I perceive Quran has no comparison to what it was back then. And when you begin to recite as in connect the verses and signs of God in Quran through each other and see by context, and reflect, wow does it every become a different level and higher wonder that I ever thought it be.

Now I will be trying to show some of these wonders. 

And there is a story of Queen of Sheba who had her whole throne warped in a twinkle of an eye, but could not recognize it was her throne and thought it was just similar, till she noticed something that could not be but her throne.

I don't know when or if it will click to see the majestic wonders of Quran and see it. So bear with me, as I will be attempting to unravel some of it's wonders that I hold on to.

I thought of going this translation and misinterpretation has to be blocked by dark magic, but, I will get to that later, and we only see that, when we see over all what the book teaches and how clear it's been all along!
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#2
RE: My proofs for Islam
Quote:I been thinking a lot of how I should go through this.

You should spend more time thinking about IF you should go through with it.
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#3
RE: My proofs for Islam
[Image: 2mhchh.jpg]
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#4
RE: My proofs for Islam
Salam

I'm to be going with a multiple door approach.  

The first thing I am going to talk about is how Quran eloquently and in subtle way proves God and his Oneness.  Although it's not a sufficient sign to proving the Quran to be from God, it's among the gathering evidence of Quran being from God.

I'm also going to be talking a long the way, it's philosophy of guidance from God,  a particularly the need of Prophets.

I'm also going to be talking about some subtle nature of topics a long with the two above and so this is not going to be very straightforward.

I'm also going to be talking about the wisdom of rituals with relationship to topic of Quran, and the relationship with the Sunnah to the Quran in that respect and vice versa.

And other topics as well including how particularly the Quran and family of that reminder, are appointed and designated to guide us, and the proof of that.
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#5
RE: My proofs for Islam
Oh god. I thought you weren't going to do this anymore? Is there any commitment you actually stick to?
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#6
RE: My proofs for Islam
Let's imagine an alternate universe where you could actually prove that the moongod existed, and wrote magic book, and that there was some silly imam hiding in occultation.

I still wouldn't be interested.  This, ultimately, is the complete failure of apologetics.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#7
RE: My proofs for Islam
(November 16, 2018 at 12:06 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Let's imagine an alternate universe where you could actually prove that the moongod existed, and wrote magic book, and that there was some silly imam hiding in occultation.

I still wouldn't be interested.  This, ultimately, is the complete failure of apologetics.

If moongod had hell that was proven, your personal life would end at that point. Because you either accept God's law out of fear or you would go insane sooner or later.
[Image: keep-calm-and-praise-the-sun.jpg]
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#8
RE: My proofs for Islam
Maybe you would, lol?  It's unclear why a fear of one thing should change my opinion on a whole raft of other things.

There are things that I won't do or accept even if there is an offer of reward. Similarly, there are things I won't do or accept even on pain or fear of death and/or torture. The pettiness of the carrot and the threat of the stick only push me further into those positions I already hold, tbt. If moongods existed, the only thing that would change in my worldview, was that moongods existed. I would still see moongods cult as a disgusting piece of work.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#9
RE: My proofs for Islam
(November 13, 2018 at 6:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Salam everyone,

I hope you are all doing well.  I will be presenting proofs for Islam. I been thinking a lot of how I should go through this.

One thing I realized is Quran can be read in whatever a way person wants to. All though there is a wisdom in the order it was completed with, we don't have to start from 1st to 2nd chapter.

When I think of the problems I had with Quran, it was a series.... it started off like:

1st time reading it all grade 7 in English - I was like "where the hell is a proof for God????".

When I really emotionally invested myself it - it took form of understanding alongside my illness.  This made religion really complicated for me. I had ALOT OF MISCONCEPTIONS.

And one of the big problems that haunted me emotionally was humans going to hell.  I had the impression, and first impressions are hard to get rid of, but that most human were going to hell, because very little understood the "true creed".

One of the first questions I asked a Muslim religiously and emotionally invested, was what defines righteousness.  What makes a person good if you can be good and of different religions have different concepts of that, why are we all united on a word called "goodness" if we all have different concepts of it.

And I remember when there were awful translations that implied Mohamad didn't manifest miracles all in excuse that ancients were sent them but denied them. That verse haunted me for a while, and it was the one and main one that made me leave Islam.

Then trying to refute Quran, I came up with many problems because I had contradictory conceptions of Quran.

That said,  I remember what I recalled of Quran when I became Atheist, and I remember what I recalled of Quran when I solved my problems with it and was a Deist, reading it, trying to give it another chance.

The Quran is not suppose to put you in hard place,  either understand this or that's it you perish. It has levels, and different mix of truth and falsehood to different humans.

The family of the reminder know how to unravel it's wonders and mysteries, and bring about it's clear insights.

So far none of what I said is a proof of anything. It's just a personal testimony.

But how I perceive Quran has no comparison to what it was back then. And when you begin to recite as in connect the verses and signs of God in Quran through each other and see by context, and reflect, wow does it every become a different level and higher wonder that I ever thought it be.

Now I will be trying to show some of these wonders. 

And there is a story of Queen of Sheba who had her whole throne warped in a twinkle of an eye, but could not recognize it was her throne and thought it was just similar, till she noticed something that could not be but her throne.

I don't know when or if it will click to see the majestic wonders of Quran and see it. So bear with me, as I will be attempting to unravel some of it's wonders that I hold on to.

I thought of going this translation and misinterpretation has to be blocked by dark magic, but, I will get to that later, and we only see that, when we see over all what the book teaches and how clear it's been all along!



The hot date didn’t go well?
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#10
RE: My proofs for Islam
[96:1] By the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful: Read -by the name of your Lord Who created-.
[96:2] He created man from a clot.

[96:3] Read and your Lord is Most Generous,
 [96:4]The one who taught (to write) with the pen
[96:5] Taught man what he knew not.
[96:6] Nay! man is most surely inordinate,
[96:7] Because he sees himself sufficient.
[96:8] Surely to your Lord is the return.
[96:9] Have you seen him who forbids
[ 96:10] A servant when he connects?
[96:11] Have you considered if he were on the right way,
[96:12] Or enjoined guarding (against evil)?
[96:13] Have you considered if he gives the lie to the truth and turns (his) back?
[96:14] Does he not know that God does see?
[96:15] Nay! if he desist not, We would certainly smite his forehead,
[96:16] A lying, sinful forehead.
[96:17] Then let him summon his council,
[96:18] We too would summon the braves of the army.
[96:19] Nay! obey him not, and make prostration and draw close.




This is the first chapter to be revealed to Mohammad.  How do we read and understand language and writing? Through reason, logic, sense of eloquence, sense of beauty in language and other important things, but all that is gathered in the name of God, the name of the one who created.

The first words is to read, but how to read and how to perceive what we are reading, it advices to do so by and with the name of God.  Reminding that we at a point didn't know but learned a lot, learned a lot by the pen inwardly as well as the pen of writing from others, and would not know what we know, were it not for what the pen taught humans over time.

This chapter begins with emphasis with the reminder that there is a lot to learn and gain guidance from.   And everything we gain in guidance will be through the name of God. 

I left the translation as "man" but the word "Al-Insan" is neutral in that respect and means human.  In that respect inwardly humans are in need of the name of God to guide them, and outwardly they are in need of writing and the pens of others to help nurture that name of God inwardly and connection to it.

It is seriously hinted that the connection (Salah) of the rituals is all about perfecting traits of that reality and connecting through it.

Humans however see themselves sufficient despite there need on others, from God. This is despite that the reality that to God is the return. 

The line "Does he not know God sees him?", shows, people may become heedless of God watching them, but in fact, always know it.  We will see more emphasis on this theme through out Quran.

At the same time Surah pertaining to leadership has contrasted Mohammad the Prophet with the sinful who call people to sinful ways. Interesting enough, is that it talks about the forehead being what is sinful. Today we know it's that part of the brain that in it really lies the final decision making. The frontal lobe is where it's at, however, this can be metaphorically perceived as in the spiritual image of the person has become that of a liar, and we don't necessarily have to go the scientific miracle route every chance we have.

It shows right from the get go the courageous will take side of guidance while others will be called by sinful leaders to oppose that.  

This Surah is very short, but shows humans are in need of guidance, surely they know God sees them, but turn aside and see themselves sufficient at the same time. 

How they know God sees them is through his name, the same name they read through and reason through and talk through and understand each other through.

Logic ultimately is characteristic linked and not separate from his name.   All knowledge also is in realms then to be learned in scope of his name.

This first revelation emphasizes if Quran is to be understood, than it will be through his name that this takes place while those who see themselves as sufficient and act inordinately in that respect, will join the sinners and a leaders from sinners, as oppose to guidance from God, and obeying God!

The advice to Mohammad falls to all people, and it's the first command after reading, to not obey the sinners. 

Yet Muslims saw it incumbent to obey sinful rulers. This surely is a sign among many that will make the case to their opposition and heedless recitation of Quran!
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