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Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
#21
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent Design Argument
(May 5, 2019 at 11:53 pm)Jrouche Wrote:
(May 5, 2019 at 11:43 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Temember that ID is a repackaged and renamed creationism.

A chrome plated, polished turd is still a turd.

V, Thanks for your input. Yes, I have given him lengthy explanations and even pointed out it was defeated in court and could not be taught in science classes because it was religious based and they used God in the premises.They then changed it to Intelligent Designer or agent to skirt the legal arguments and it was still rejected. Sigh...

here's something else, the universe, humans and everything else is so poorly designed to anyone who knows anything about a particular field the only conclusion you can draw for an intelligence that created everything is that said intelligence is very pathetic and stupid.



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#22
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
Moderator Notice
I’ve merged the two threads since they were the same Smile
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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#23
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
(May 6, 2019 at 12:55 am)Losty Wrote:
Moderator Notice
I’ve merged the two threads since they were the same Smile

Ruiner!
Sanity adjacent.


Angel





IMGUR 
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#24
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
(May 6, 2019 at 1:03 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:
(May 6, 2019 at 12:55 am)Losty Wrote:
Moderator Notice
I’ve merged the two threads since they were the same Smile

Ruiner!

Thanks!!!! I'll print all the responses tomorrow. Best, John
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#25
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent Design Argument
(May 5, 2019 at 10:57 pm)Jrouche Wrote:
(May 5, 2019 at 10:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: IDK if I have time to help you draft an argument, but you can bounce ideas of me. What's this 3 pronged argument?
Thanks for helping.  1) Intelligence is known to cause effects exhibiting information rich and specified complexity.
              
                              2) The universe and life are effects that exhibit information rich in specified complexity.

                              3) Therefore, intelligence is a possible cause for the universe and life. 

    Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

    John

That one is easy just google complex specified information is bullshit.

What your opponent is doing is probably a variation of the Gish gallop, trotting out arguments quicker than you can refute them and then claiming the win by default. Your best long term strategy is "citation needed", followed by "you already asserted this, you never backed it up though". Shift the burden of proof back to them, because it's their responsibility.
You see, one thing is: I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knoing than to have answers which might be wrong.
Richard Feynman

Well the sorrow the suffering the glory the pain
The killing the dying was all done in vain
For young Willy Mc Bride it all happened again
And again,and again,and again,and again

Eric Bogle Green Fields of France
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#26
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent Design Argument
(May 5, 2019 at 10:57 pm)Jrouche Wrote:
(May 5, 2019 at 10:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: IDK if I have time to help you draft an argument, but you can bounce ideas of me. What's this 3 pronged argument?
Thanks for helping.  1) Intelligence is known to cause effects exhibiting information rich and specified complexity.
              
                              2) The universe and life are effects that exhibit information rich in specified complexity.

                              3) Therefore, intelligence is a possible cause for the universe and life. 

    Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

    John

The intelligence of the god that caused the information must be complex and form of information both specific and complex.
As such this MUST have come from a greater intelligence. 
So that would be gods god, and of course gods god is complex and specific.....

Its gods all the way up.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#27
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
Why did a god design us with a common opening for eating, drinking and breathing, that's stupid design, any first year engineering student could do a better job..... stupid god
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

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#28
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
Welcome Woof.

Looks like you're getting all the assistance you need, and I ain't that goodly at this wrighten stuff.

plato.stanford.edu, then search
God(s) and religions are man made and the bane of humanity. 

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ozzy or Twain/take your pick
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#29
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
I think I would go with madog’s approach. Even agreeing that it’s one of the many possible explanations but applying occam’s razor Isn’t the simplest necessary likely solution and reiterate that evidentiary ball is in their court
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#30
RE: Help refuting an Intelligent design argument
(May 5, 2019 at 10:57 pm)Jrouche Wrote:
(May 5, 2019 at 10:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: IDK if I have time to help you draft an argument, but you can bounce ideas of me. What's this 3 pronged argument?
Thanks for helping. 1) Intelligence is known to cause effects exhibiting information rich and specified complexity.

2) The universe and life are effects that exhibit information rich in specified complexity.

3) Therefore, intelligence is a possible cause for the universe and life.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

John

This argument would have been more convincing before we knew as much as we do now about cosmology and evolution. That life evolved is a known fact, and we understand the mechanisms fairly well. Much remains mysterious about the origin of the universe, but we have discovered multiple ways it could exist that don't require any intelligent planner or instigator. The universe could be a product of intelligence, but there's no scientific reason to suppose that it is.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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