Nine killed in Dayton, Ohio

[Brian37]

I wish I had caught the GOP congressman's name just now. I accidentally stopped on Fox Business channel at 6:24 EDT which is Aug 8th, I have my TV to expand wide to get rid of all the annoying graphics so I didn't catch his name.

But I kid you not, the fucker used the words "Kneejerk reaction"...

WHAT THE HOLY FUCK? What reaction should someone have when their loved ones have their brains blown out, or they themselves come close and witness others get their guts blown out? Please GOP tell everyone what the proper response is to these events that happen EVERY FUCKING DAY!

[Brian37]

We need to put the date in the subject line for these threads.

For someone who kept me sane during a hurricane, really?

4 billion years ago, I didn't mater, you didn't matter. 5 billion years from now neither of us will be remembered.


We cant bother people with pragmatic reality. SARCASM!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We need to put the date in the subject line for these threads.

For someone who kept me sane during a hurricane, really?

4 billion years ago, I didn't mater, you didn't matter. 5 billion years from now neither of us will be remembered.


We cant bother people with pragmatic reality. SARCASM!

We need to put the date of the shooting in the subject line, for when there is more than one shooting in a town.

[EgoDeath]

Yeah, no shit, the vast majority of gun owners are actually responsible and not likely to actually commit a homicide with those guns, and there is so much of the problem that lies in our culture (just look at Trump and his voter base for an illustration of that) that saying it’s just guns is facile, but that said, well, it’s really a testament to how little has changed on this front that Bill Hicks, who’s been dead for a quarter of a century remains spot on:





There’s a lot of toxic elements in our culture that’s contributing to these mass shootings, but it’s clear that the fact that, among developed nations, very few have the sort of levels of gun crime we do, and very few make it as easy as we do to get a gun. If someone’s a danger to themselves or others, you don’t let them near anything they can use to hurt themselves or other people (at least, if you give a shit), and, as far as entire countries go, Americans pretty much are that.

And, since you said you’d support reasonable gun restrictions, I feel I should ask: what sort of restrictions would you be in favor of? Personally, I’d make it so that people who wanted a firearm needed to have a license, although, that said license should theoretically be as easy to get as a driver’s license (provided you don’t have violent crimes on your record) with the written exam focusing on the sort of dos and donts of actually using the damn thing properly. More restrictions may come if needed. Of course, bear in mind, the NRA has done their damnedest to make sure even the most reasonable restrictions are either repealed, not passed at all, or watered down so thoroughly that they’re virtually meaningless. Here’s a good enough place to start with your investigations, and there’s a lot more where that came from.

This is why I believe the problem lies more within our culture than just in the fact that we have a lot of guns.

What I'd like to see is stricter background checks that involve an in-depth mental evaluation as well as every gun-owner going through a mandatory shooting and gun safety class.

Will this weed out the mass-shooters? Who's to say? I doubt the NRA will budge any time soon.

---

Right, but... the VAST majority of gun-owners are not doing shit like this. This isn't to say that guns are not a factor, but claiming guns are the only part of the problem worth addressing is silly. We have a culture problem, not a gun problem. If you think that more guns simply being there will just cause more shootings to happen, you have very little faith in humanity. I think it's more an issue of how easily accessible guns are combined with several problems we have with our culture.

Do we need better gun regulations? Sure, but blaming everyone on the right and trying to tout them as racist gun-fanatics isn't doing anyone any favors. It's about time we, as a country, learned how to have mature discussions about this subject so we can actually start getting to the root of the problem.

100 people on average even outside mass shootings are dying by firearm per day! 36,000 on average per year. I don't care about the majority, ENOUGH people are, and even with those that do die every day, most firearm fatalities start with a legally purchased firearm. But it is also true that it does not help that the POTUS is pandering to bigots. Bad combo to have a climate of easy access to firearms, and sell hate as well. 

Our laws have to change, PERIOD! It isn't enough to say "Don't blame me, I don't do that." Nobody is talking about you, I am talking about our laws and one industry's CEOs whom are obstructing any meaningful change, regardless of motive.

I never said "don't blame me i dont do that". Lol

Once again Brian, youve managed to create an argument when I never disagreed with you.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yeah, no shit, the vast majority of gun owners are actually responsible and not likely to actually commit a homicide with those guns, and there is so much of the problem that lies in our culture (just look at Trump and his voter base for an illustration of that) that saying it’s just guns is facile, but that said, well, it’s really a testament to how little has changed on this front that Bill Hicks, who’s been dead for a quarter of a century remains spot on:





There’s a lot of toxic elements in our culture that’s contributing to these mass shootings, but it’s clear that the fact that, among developed nations, very few have the sort of levels of gun crime we do, and very few make it as easy as we do to get a gun. If someone’s a danger to themselves or others, you don’t let them  near anything they can use to hurt themselves or other people (at least, if you give a shit), and, as far as entire countries go, Americans pretty much are that.

And, since you said you’d support reasonable gun restrictions, I feel I should ask: what sort of restrictions would you be in favor of? Personally, I’d make it so that people who wanted a firearm needed to have a license, although, that said license should theoretically be as easy to get as a driver’s license (provided you don’t have violent crimes on your record) with the written exam focusing on the sort of dos and donts of actually using the damn thing properly.  More restrictions may come if needed. Of course, bear in mind, the NRA has done their damnedest to make sure even the most reasonable restrictions are either repealed, not passed at all, or watered down so thoroughly that they’re virtually meaningless. Here’s a good enough place to start with your investigations, and there’s a lot more where that came from.

This is why I believe the problem lies more within our culture than just in the fact that we have a lot of guns.

What I'd like to see is stricter background checks that involve an in-depth mental evaluation as well as every gun-owner going through a mandatory shooting and gun safety class.

Will this weed out the mass-shooters? Who's to say? I doubt the NRA will budge any time soon.

---

100 people on average even outside mass shootings are dying by firearm per day! 36,000 on average per year. I don't care about the majority, ENOUGH people are, and even with those that do die every day, most firearm fatalities start with a legally purchased firearm. But it is also true that it does not help that the POTUS is pandering to bigots. Bad combo to have a climate of easy access to firearms, and sell hate as well. 

Our laws have to change, PERIOD! It isn't enough to say "Don't blame me, I don't do that." Nobody is talking about you, I am talking about our laws and one industry's CEOs whom are obstructing any meaningful change, regardless of motive.

I never said "don't blame me i dont do that". Lol

Once again Brian, youve managed to create an argument when I never disagreed with you.

It's his raison d'etre.

Boru

[Fireball]

California has a mandatory test before a firearm purchase can leave the store. Further, the buyer must have the operation of the firearm demonstrated for them by the seller, and sign a form acknowledging that they have received the training. I know that a lot of that goes in one ear and out the other for most people, though. Further, like Gae has repeated, the laws being enforced would go a long way to rectifying the problem. Also, as of July 1st, we have to register with the California DoJ in order to be able to purchase ammunition, and every time a purchase is made, the DoJ database is queried to verify permission to purchase ammo. That's a buck, each time. I'll buy more ammo at one time to offset that charge. That means I'll also purchase it less often (I hope- people get stupid about it sometimes and raid the stores for all they can buy).

I contend that these requirements will do nothing to solve the gun deaths issue, if the rest of the laws aren't enforced.

[The Grand Nudger]

Anything that positively encourages stockpiling will contribute to the primary difficulty of any imaginable control scheme.

Loose guns need loose rounds.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

California has a mandatory test before a firearm purchase can leave the store.

Is this new?

[Fireball]

California has a mandatory test before a firearm purchase can leave the store.

Is this new?

Yes, enacted Jan 1, 2015- Firearms Safety Certificate. I mis-wrote that- it's good for 5 years and then must be renewed. There was a Handgun Safety Certificate required before that, then it was updated to include long guns. I don't remember when the HSC was enacted.

[Rev. Rye]

This is why I believe the problem lies more within our culture than just in the fact that we have a lot of guns.

What I'd like to see is stricter background checks that involve an in-depth mental evaluation as well as every gun-owner going through a mandatory shooting and gun safety class.

Will this weed out the mass-shooters? Who's to say? I doubt the NRA will budge any time soon.

Thank you, Ego, for explaining what sort of reasonable gun control you'd like to see. I've heard a lot of people who claim that they're in favour of "Reasonable gun control" but think anything proposed is a bridge too far (and never explain what constitutes "reasonable gun control").