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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 3:48 pm
(August 19, 2019 at 1:17 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (August 19, 2019 at 12:25 pm)Lek Wrote: Why is christianity inherently immoral?
Substitutive sacrifice is immoral on the face of it. I can pay your debts, but that doesn't absolve you of the moral obligation of the debt. I can serve your prison sentence in your place, but that doesn't erase what you did.
Torturing and murdering a 1st century rabbi to absolve humanity of its sins is a difference of degree, not of kind.
Boru
If you steal money from me, you have wronged me and owe me restitution. If your friend comes to me and offers to repay what you steal if I agree to drop charges and I agree, you are resolved of your debt. A person can forgive another person for a legitimate offense and not demand restitution. In this case, even though the offender didn't do anything to make up for the offense, he is forgiven and absolved.
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 3:52 pm
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2019 at 3:54 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(August 19, 2019 at 3:48 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 19, 2019 at 1:17 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Substitutive sacrifice is immoral on the face of it. I can pay your debts, but that doesn't absolve you of the moral obligation of the debt. I can serve your prison sentence in your place, but that doesn't erase what you did.
Torturing and murdering a 1st century rabbi to absolve humanity of its sins is a difference of degree, not of kind.
Boru
If you steal money from me, you have wronged me and owe me restitution. If your friend comes to me and offers to repay what you steal if I agree to drop charges and I agree, you are resolved of your debt. A person can forgive another person for a legitimate offense and not demand restitution. In this case, even though the offender didn't do anything to make up for the offense, he is forgiven and absolved.
But that doesn't absolve me of the crime of the original theft. Because *I* haven't done anything to make restitution to *you*. Substituting a whipping boy for a prince doesn't change the offense committed by the prince.
Forgiveness isn't the same issue at all.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 4:09 pm
(August 19, 2019 at 3:52 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (August 19, 2019 at 3:48 pm)Lek Wrote: If you steal money from me, you have wronged me and owe me restitution. If your friend comes to me and offers to repay what you steal if I agree to drop charges and I agree, you are resolved of your debt. A person can forgive another person for a legitimate offense and not demand restitution. In this case, even though the offender didn't do anything to make up for the offense, he is forgiven and absolved.
But that doesn't absolve me of the crime of the original theft. Because *I* haven't done anything to make restitution to *you*. Substituting a whipping boy for a prince doesn't change the offense committed by the prince.
Forgiveness isn't the same issue at all.
Boru
Well, God is the one we offended and he accepts Jesus' sacrifice in our place. Forgiveness is an issue in in that case.
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 4:14 pm
(August 19, 2019 at 4:09 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 19, 2019 at 3:52 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But that doesn't absolve me of the crime of the original theft. Because *I* haven't done anything to make restitution to *you*. Substituting a whipping boy for a prince doesn't change the offense committed by the prince.
Forgiveness isn't the same issue at all.
Boru
Well, God is the one we offended and he accepts Jesus' sacrifice in our place. Forgiveness is an issue in in that case.
Human sacrifice is immoral.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 4:35 pm
Humans have selflessly sacrificed themselves to save the lives of others and were heroes. Jesus made the decision to do the same for us. This isn't like the Mayans grabbing some person and cutting their heart out.
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 4:42 pm
(August 19, 2019 at 4:35 pm)Lek Wrote: Humans have selflessly sacrificed themselves to save the lives of others and were heroes. Jesus made the decision to do the same for us. This isn't like the Mayans grabbing some person and cutting their heart out.*
*according to Christian mythology.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 5:20 pm
I'd say Christianity isn't very much like human sacrifice at all. It's a lot more like... extortion.
"You worked on Sunday, which has wronged me. You owe me a lifetime in hell. But don't worry, I'll sacrifice myself/my son (we're the same person) to myself and I'll forgive you. So long as you worship and obey me and do whatever I say. Then you'll have forgiveness for working on Sunday."
The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to woman is, to the last degree, contemptuous and degrading. - Elizabeth Cady Stanton
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 19, 2019 at 5:32 pm
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2019 at 5:33 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(August 19, 2019 at 4:35 pm)Lek Wrote: Humans have selflessly sacrificed themselves to save the lives of others and were heroes. Jesus made the decision to do the same for us. This isn't like the Mayans grabbing some person and cutting their heart out.
(August 19, 2019 at 4:42 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (August 19, 2019 at 4:35 pm)Lek Wrote: Humans have selflessly sacrificed themselves to save the lives of others and were heroes. Jesus made the decision to do the same for us. This isn't like the Mayans grabbing some person and cutting their heart out.*
*according to Christian mythology.
Even the mythology can't get the mythology straight.
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 20, 2019 at 3:22 am
(August 19, 2019 at 4:35 pm)Lek Wrote: Humans have selflessly sacrificed themselves to save the lives of others and were heroes. Jesus made the decision to do the same for us. This isn't like the Mayans grabbing some person and cutting their heart out.
Jesus was inconvenienced for a weekend. He sacrificed nothing.
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RE: "Good" & "Bad" Christians?
August 20, 2019 at 12:24 pm
(August 19, 2019 at 5:20 pm)Cecelia Wrote: I'd say Christianity isn't very much like human sacrifice at all. It's a lot more like... extortion.
"You worked on Sunday, which has wronged me. You owe me a lifetime in hell. But don't worry, I'll sacrifice myself/my son (we're the same person) to myself and I'll forgive you. So long as you worship and obey me and do whatever I say. Then you'll have forgiveness for working on Sunday."
You really have a messed up idea of christianity, don't you?
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