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Current time: September 18, 2019, 9:35 am

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The elephant conumdrum
#1
The elephant conumdrum
This story could be written any number of ways, but this is how I wanted to word it.

It's nearly high noon in the Serengeti and from the hilltop you are standing on you can see an elephant grazing on the tall grass and a truck that contains a very large container of water. The container of water is open and in the hot environment, water is evaporating from the container.

The elephant and the truck, with the container of water, were both weighed this morning and the truck weighed more than the elephant. At some point today, as the water evaporates the elephant eats more, the elephant will weigh more than the truck.

There is a team of professionals parked a certain distance away that will travel to this site and weigh both the elephant and truck. Given the terrain and accidents that can happen along the way, it is unknown when the team will arrive to weigh both.

Should the team arrive with no trouble, it will take them about 30 minutes to get here.
Should there be trouble, more than likely, it will take more than an hour for them to get here.

I'm going to bet you that you cannot correctly guess which will weigh more, when the team arrives to weigh the elephant and truck. Additionally, I am going to tell you that no matter which one you pick, you will always be wrong.

As an added bonus, I'm going to allow you a phone call directly to god, to ask him which one will weigh more when the team arrives to weigh both the elephant and the truck with the large open container of water.

When you ask god which one will weigh more when the team arrives to weigh them both, 
god replies "If you believe that what I tell you is the truth, then you will always be wrong. If you believe that what I tell you is a lie, then I will always be right."

Given the information, what other questions would you like to ask god that might give you some insight on winning the bet.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#2
RE: The elephant conumdrum
OK god, why the fuck should I care what a truck or elephant weighs? Now give me the prize or I'm going to bend you over and give you a damn good rogering.

Either way I win.
God(s) and religions are man made and the bane of humanity. 

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ozzy or Twain/take your pick
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#3
RE: The elephant conumdrum
Put me down for $120 (in Monopoly bills).

They'll weigh the same when the team arrives.

If I'm wrong...well, that's what God told me.
Blame him.
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#4
RE: The elephant conumdrum
Story: asking god questions is pointless because fictional characters don’t answer questions.
Sanity adjacent.


Angel





IMGUR 
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#5
RE: The elephant conumdrum
In a fictional story, fictional characters can answer questions, but don't tell anybody that's it's really me answering the questions. Shhhhhhhh !!!

And no, they will not weigh the same.

I made up this story to show that in order for god to be correct, he will have to intentionally give you false information.
If you rely on the information he tells you as being true, then he and you will always be wrong.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#6
RE: The elephant conumdrum
(September 8, 2019 at 9:59 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: In a fictional story, fictional characters can answer questions, but don't tell anybody that's it's really me answering the questions. Shhhhhhhh !!!

And no, they will not weigh the same.

I made up this story to show that in order for god to be correct, he will have to intentionally give you false information.
If you rely on the information he tells you as being true, then he and you will always be wrong.

Why would he have to give you false information? I'm not seeing it.
"Our attitudes towards things like race or gender operate on two levels. First of all, we have our conscious attitudes. This is what we choose to believe. These are our stated values, which we use to direct our behavior deliberately ... But the IAT [Implicit Association Test] measures something else. It measures our second level of attitude, our racial attitude on an unconscious level - the immediate, automatic associations that tumble out before we've even had time to think. We don't deliberately choose our unconscious attitudes. And ... we may not even be aware of them. The giant computer that is our unconscious silently crunches all the data it can from the experiences we've had, the people we've met, the lessons we've learned, the books we've read, the movies we've seen, and so on, and it forms an opinion." - Malcolm Gladwell
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#7
RE: The elephant conumdrum
(September 9, 2019 at 12:28 am)Grandizer Wrote:
(September 8, 2019 at 9:59 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: In a fictional story, fictional characters can answer questions, but don't tell anybody that's it's really me answering the questions. Shhhhhhhh !!!

And no, they will not weigh the same.

I made up this story to show that in order for god to be correct, he will have to intentionally give you false information.
If you rely on the information he tells you as being true, then he and you will always be wrong.

Why would he have to give you false information? I'm not seeing it.

If god says the elephant will weigh more and the person talking to god uses that information and says I will pick that the elephant will weigh more when the team arrives to weigh them both, then I will call in a team that will arrive in 30 minutes and that will mean that the truck will weigh more. Both god and the person will be wrong.

If god intentionally lies to the person saying truck will weigh more and the person believes god is being truthful, then the person will say - I'll pick the truck.

I will then call in a team that is an hour away and when they arrive, the elephant will weigh more.

No matter what the person chooses, they will always be wrong because no matter which one they pick, I will arrange when the team arrives to weigh them both.

God will only be right if he intentionally lies to the person asking the question.

God knows that the elephant will weigh more.
He tells you that the truck will weigh more. (a lie)
You say that the truck will weigh more.

I call in a team that is an hour away and by the time they get here, the elephant will weigh more and you will be wrong.

So it leaves you in a situation in which you can't trust that God will be truthful if he is also all knowing.

And if he can be shown to not be all knowing (by giving the wrong answer) then he isn't an all knowing god.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#8
RE: The elephant conumdrum
(September 8, 2019 at 9:59 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: And no, they will not weigh the same.

Well, at some point they could.

You said that no matter which ONE we picked, we'd be wrong--Essentially informing us that you, in all your divine knowledge and intervention, know that they will be weighed in the precise moments when they are of equal weight.

So knock it off, God! I want my money!
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#9
RE: The elephant conumdrum
(September 9, 2019 at 1:00 am)Athene Wrote:
(September 8, 2019 at 9:59 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: And no, they will not weigh the same.

Well, at some point they could.

You said that no matter which ONE we picked, we'd be wrong--Essentially informing us that you, in all your divine knowledge and intervention, know that they will be weighed in the precise moments when they are of equal weight.

So knock it off, God! I want my money!

When weighed, they won't ever weigh the same because I control when they get weighed. I'll either have a team arrive early and the truck will weigh more or have a team arrive later when the elephant weighs more.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#10
RE: The elephant conumdrum
(September 9, 2019 at 1:06 am)Rahn127 Wrote:
(September 9, 2019 at 1:00 am)Athene Wrote: Well, at some point they could.

You said that no matter which ONE we picked, we'd be wrong--Essentially informing us that you, in all your divine knowledge and intervention, know that they will be weighed in the precise moments when they are of equal weight.

So knock it off, God! I want my money!

When weighed, they won't ever weigh the same because I control when they get weighed. I'll either have a team arrive early and the truck will weigh more or have a team arrive later when the elephant weighs more.

I get it now. Interesting. I'll think of a counter if any later today.
"Our attitudes towards things like race or gender operate on two levels. First of all, we have our conscious attitudes. This is what we choose to believe. These are our stated values, which we use to direct our behavior deliberately ... But the IAT [Implicit Association Test] measures something else. It measures our second level of attitude, our racial attitude on an unconscious level - the immediate, automatic associations that tumble out before we've even had time to think. We don't deliberately choose our unconscious attitudes. And ... we may not even be aware of them. The giant computer that is our unconscious silently crunches all the data it can from the experiences we've had, the people we've met, the lessons we've learned, the books we've read, the movies we've seen, and so on, and it forms an opinion." - Malcolm Gladwell
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