A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.

[Ranjr]

We don't know what it's like to be a different animal.  Seeing us as being above them is myopic.  To use Nagel's example, a bat.  Bats live without the need for cities and inventions.  Why put so much value on things like houses and vehicles?  Bats take flight, live in caves and see with their ears.  That may be equally divine, as in god's chosen animal or not at all.  Who are we to say?  Do we speak for god?  I don't trust people who make such claims.  They speak in blank rhetoric and offer no substance.

Why should human beings presume to be divine creation?  It's pure narcissism and completely unfounded to do so.  At what point in human evolution did divine nature manifest?  With Flores Man?  Denisovan?  Neanderthal?  Were those cave dwelling, club wielders forsaken by god, like dogs and dolphins?  What a prick of a god. 

God is not fully knowable because people can't decide what he is.  I don't blame him.  He's just a character in a play.

[unityconversation]

Still stuck in the material world I see.

What else is there, and how do you know?

LadyForCamus, we only know through the divine names and attributes of God that we all display and manifest to the physical world. We have to stop trying to put God under a microscope because that will never happen. God is far beyond the physical universe.

Even though the common human being can display all of the names and attributes of God at the highest level among all the other animals, there is level beyond that.

The Prophets / Messengers can display the names and attributes of God at the highest level "perfectly"

So, if you "really" want to know God, the "absolute" best way to do that is to know the Prophets / Messengers.

[LadyForCamus]

What else is there, and how do you know?

LadyForCamus, we only know through the divine names and attributes of God that we all display and manifest to the physical world. We have to stop trying to put God under a microscope because that will never happen. God is far beyond the physical universe.

So, I ask for evidence for an assertion you make, and you answer with more bald assertions, lol. Cool story bro. I have an invisible dragon in my basement. I can’t show him to you though, because he’s immaterial. Maybe, someday he’ll reveal himself to you; when you’re ready with an open heart. 

[Fake Messiah]

And yet dogs are much better in all of them than humans.
So did you learn your religion from a dog?

Oh really.

I'll just say this, humans teach and train dogs all the time, but dogs could never teach and train a human.

Shows you don't know shit. Here are videos of dogs teaching humans optimism

[unityconversation]

1. I said the conversation is between the person and God. I never said the person will lose free will / choice. It's a process if independent investigation for ones self. Your still trying to look for God physically which is a mistake.

2. I wasn't talking about you in particular. I was talking about the forum in general. And why would you call me a liar?

3. Human don't create death, that comes automatically.


Let me ask you something:

Can the animal invent things?

Can the animal create develop highly advanced technology?

Can the animal build a city?

Can the animal build an entire state?

Can the animal build whole countries and entire civilizations?

How about this one for you: Can the animal go into orbit/space travel?

All of those things are manifestations of the divine reality that only the human being has.

Response to 1: Your god and me, you are not necessary. Stop preaching.

Response to 2: I call you a liar because your original post didn't say "I'm this religion and here to answer questions, please ask me". The OP stated religious beliefs. Do I need to copy/paste?

Response to 3: Nice non-responsive dodge.

On to the questions:

Chimps and birds invent tools.

I don't have an animal example of technology. Have you ever thought that they don't find it necessary? To bad they can't invent killing machines, right?

Ants and bees build cities for themselves all of the time.

Apes build social states/civilizations. So do insects. They even go to war.

Yes, animals can and have gone into space. (oops, maybe you should be more careful with your questions)

You were mistaken on all of the questions positions but one. Better that you don't play this childish game. And even it I answered no to all of the questions I would not consider that a valid argument for your religion or god. Bottom line, you don't get to argue a god into existence, and that wasn't even a good argument.

Your god is a figment of the human imagination. One that you probably wouldn't have come up with on your own, it's the result of religious programming you've received.

1. That's essentially what I just said.

2. This is not about me changing my original post, even though I haven't. Questions are asked on the forum and I try to answer them it's just that simple. You don't have to ask me anything, you don't even have to reply.

3. So how is it a nonresponsive dodge?


Chimps and birds doesn't "invent" anything. All that can do is by instinct, use the natural resources directly around them to make very simple things like nests and sticks to grab insects. That is a farcry from things we human beings can invent.

Animals don't find it necessary and they can't find it necessary, they will never have that capacity.

Do you mean to tell me right now that mere ants and bees can build cities exactly just like the technically advanced cities that human beings build, are you serious?

Once again, are you telling me that mere apes can build
technically advanced social states/civilizations just like humans can?

Yes, other animal has gone into space, and guess what, "human beings sent them there."

"you don't get to argue a god into existence."
Now I'm kind of confused about that statement. I thought that atheists wanted a good argument about God's existence???

---

LadyForCamus, we only know through the divine names and attributes of God that we all display and manifest to the physical world. We have to stop trying to put God under a microscope because that will never happen. God is far beyond the physical universe.

So, I ask for evidence for an assertion you make, and you answer with more bald assertions, lol. Cool story bro. I have an invisible dragon in my basement. I can’t show him to you though, because he’s immaterial. Maybe, someday he’ll reveal himself to you; when you’re ready with an open heart. 

There you go again, you want physical evidence for a non physical entity.

Let me ask you something about the example you just gave. Forget that the dragon is invisible, what is the reason and the meaning of the dragon doing in your basement in the first place?

We're always looking for a physical spectacle, but we deny the spiritual and divine meanings of things.

[no one]

Hey Unity, can you hook me up with whoever you get your hallucinogens from?

[unityconversation]

We don't know what it's like to be a different animal.  Seeing us as being above them is myopic.  To use Nagel's example, a bat.  Bats live without the need for cities and inventions.  Why put so much value on things like houses and vehicles?  Bats take flight, live in caves and see with their ears.  That may be equally divine, as in god's chosen animal or not at all.  Who are we to say?  Do we speak for god?  I don't trust people who make such claims.  They speak in blank rhetoric and offer no substance.

Why should human beings presume to be divine creation?  It's pure narcissism and completely unfounded to do so.  At what point in human evolution did divine nature manifest?  With Flores Man?  Denisovan?  Neanderthal?  Were those cave dwelling, club wielders forsaken by god, like dogs and dolphins?  What a prick of a god. 

God is not fully knowable because people can't decide what he is.  I don't blame him.  He's just a character in a play.

You said: "We don't know what it's like to be a different animal"

Well we know what it's like to be animals period, I mean we are physically animals as well.

You said: "Bats live without the need for cities and inventions"

Bats doesn't even and never will comprehend what cities and true intentions is.

You said: "Bats take flight, live in caves and see with their ears.  That may be equally divine"

All of those are purely physical attributes.

You said: "Who are we to say?  Do we speak for god?"

Sure. All human beings can speak for God, especially the Prophets / Messengers.

You said: "I don't trust people who make such claims."

Ok, that's fine.

You said: "Why should human beings presume to be divine creation?"

Like I said because we manifest those spiritual qualities to the physical world.

You said: "At what point in human evolution did divine nature manifest?"

The human being has always been manifesting divine nature to the world even though out the physical evolutionary process.

---

Hey Unity, can you hook me up with whoever you get your hallucinogens from?

Well you'll be out of luck. I don't smoke or drink.

---

Oh really.

I'll just say this, humans teach and train dogs all the time, but dogs could never teach and train a human.

Shows you don't know shit. Here are videos of dogs teaching humans optimism

Fake Messiah, those dogs wasn't "teaching" the individuals. If anything at the very least the dogs in their own way was tying to bring comfort to the the individuals. If the dogs was trying to "teach" optimism by simply laying on their laps, then any animal in the world can teach optimism. Now mind you, I not saying those dogs are not smart, all animals have intelligence but we shouldn't act like a dog can be a human being's therapist.

Let me ask a couple of questions.

Are those the individuals personal dogs?

Were the dogs trained?

Those two questions plays a role in the context of the videos

---

Let me ask you something:

Can the animal invent things?

Can the animal create develop highly advanced technology?

Can the animal build a city?

Can the animal build an entire state?

Can the animal build whole countries and entire civilizations?

How about this one for you: Can the animal go into orbit/space travel?

All of those things are manifestations of the divine reality that only the human being has.

 The answer is yes to all of the above..but I don't know why it would matter, since humans aren't less awesome just because animals can do things. What any of that has to do with the "divine"...is anyone's guess.

All of those questions are not yes and you know that.

Like I've been saying, all of those are the the manifestations in the physical world of the divine reality that only the human being possesses. We are the only animal species that can do those.

[Fake Messiah]

If anything at the very least the dogs in their own way was tying to bring comfort to the the individuals.

If a dog is making someone optimistic then it is teaching them optimism.

Are those the individuals personal dogs?

Were the dogs trained?

Dude, you don't need to train a dog to be optimistic. Find almost any stray dog and you'll see that it has all the "qualities" that you enumerated, like Integrity, Courageousness, Honesty, Generosity, Loyalty, Perseverance, Respectfulness, Politeness, Responsibility, Kindness, Humility, Lovingness, Compassion, Optimism, Fairness, Reliability, Forgiveness, Conscientiousness, Authenticity, Self-discipline.

And if you want to learn those "qualities" you might as well learn it from a dog because your "philosophy" is very simple-minded, considering that it is not good to always be humble, optimistic, generous, loyal, etc.

[brewer]

Unity's failing all across this thread. Just another self entitled self righteous religious person here to correct us poor heathens.

Too bad he didn't talk to us instead of preach at us.

---

Response to 1: Your god and me, you are not necessary. Stop preaching.

Response to 2: I call you a liar because your original post didn't say "I'm this religion and here to answer questions, please ask me". The OP stated religious beliefs. Do I need to copy/paste?

Response to 3: Nice non-responsive dodge.

On to the questions:

Chimps and birds invent tools.

I don't have an animal example of technology. Have you ever thought that they don't find it necessary? To bad they can't invent killing machines, right?

Ants and bees build cities for themselves all of the time.

Apes build social states/civilizations. So do insects. They even go to war.

Yes, animals can and have gone into space. (oops, maybe you should be more careful with your questions)

You were mistaken on all of the questions positions but one. Better that you don't play this childish game. And even it I answered no to all of the questions I would not consider that a valid argument for your religion or god. Bottom line, you don't get to argue a god into existence, and that wasn't even a good argument.

Your god is a figment of the human imagination. One that you probably wouldn't have come up with on your own, it's the result of religious programming you've received.

1. That's essentially what I just said.

2. This is not about me changing my original post, even though I haven't. Questions are asked on the forum and I try to answer them it's just that simple. You don't have to ask me anything, you don't even have to reply.

3. So how is it a nonresponsive dodge?


Chimps and birds doesn't "invent" anything. All that can do is by instinct, use the natural resources directly around them to make very simple things like nests and sticks to grab insects. That is a farcry from things we human beings can invent.

Animals don't find it necessary and they can't find it necessary, they will never have that capacity.

Do you mean to tell me right now that mere ants and bees can build cities exactly just like the technically advanced cities that human beings build, are you serious?

Once again, are you telling me that mere apes can build
technically advanced social states/civilizations just like humans can?

Yes, other animal has gone into space, and guess what, "human beings sent them there."

"you don't get to argue a god into existence."
Now I'm kind of confused about that statement. I thought that atheists wanted a good argument about God's existence???

---

You thought wrong. I want evidence, not argument. You're just another religious putz.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It isn't even argument.  It's simple assertion.

Boru