Posts: 765
Threads: 40
Joined: August 8, 2010
Reputation:
21
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 1, 2011 at 6:48 am
(March 1, 2011 at 5:27 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I've explained it to you a couple of times already now Scarlet. Unless you can stump up some reasoning to support your assertion that the metaphysical and physical exist together in one or other realm then we have nothing to go on. Your assertion is counter established logic on the subject. I am not the one introducing anything new here. No you really haven't
(March 1, 2011 at 5:27 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Please go look up metaphysical in a dictionary if you don't understand what it means. Here ya go: http://tinyurl.com/ou53pd How does this explain that Jesus was 100% man and 100% a god? You have yet to offer ANY support for this.
(March 1, 2011 at 5:27 am)fr0d0 Wrote: If this reality was produced by God, which is the Christian position, then he was the source of everything temporal. Everything including us is 'of God'. God is not apart from this reality, he is active in it. He is atemporal, acting upon the temporal. An atemporal being cannot act, as previously discussed. You have yet to offer ANY support for this.
(March 1, 2011 at 5:27 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You guys are trying to pull the "prove something non physical to be physical" argument. The weakest argument against Christianity I think. I'm sorry I'm not up for a discussion about such absurdities. Is a strawman. You have been asked to defend your assertions thats all. I find the above accusation irrelevant to the arguments you have presented and are yet to defend.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 1, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Well yet again Evie you conflate two different things (God and Man, Milk and Liquid, Mortality and Immortality) into one thing, when no one has ever said that any of those two things are together.
Jesus the mortal man and Jesus the immortal God are not the same thing. Jesus the man died. He is no more. He's dead. Jesus the God 'is'. He always was God. He always is God.
Same as the milk is always milk and liquid is always liquid. The two things describe what is in the glass, but two properties of what is in the glass. Both correct. Both different.
scarlet Wrote:An atemporal being cannot act Unsupported and unsupportable assertion
No strawman Scarlett. So you are saying you are not interested in physical proof of God/ a soul/ Jesus being also God???
Posts: 13901
Threads: 263
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 1, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Ahh this thing in my hand is 100% rock and 100% cheese.
It can be because milk can be 100% milk and 100% liquid.
Except that milk is just a specific kind of liquid and rock and cheese are entirely different things, as are god and man.
I've read your arguments and they amount to no explanation at all frods. Still keep trying, maybe you just need a better analogy.
on a related note, is cheese 100% cheese and 100% milk or does becoming cheese negate the milk entirely?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 1, 2011 at 3:44 pm
Milk is a specific kind of liquid. A man is a specific part of God.
But you know what my point is, you just try hard not to get it. You can lead an atheist to logic, you can't make him understand it 
Posts: 647
Threads: 9
Joined: March 3, 2010
Reputation:
14
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 1, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Incidentally, the great Christian philosopher Kierkegaard believed that the idea of Jesus' being fully man and fully God was a paradox, which had to be accepted on faith. It only works if you say that there were actually two bits of Jesus, two distinct beings, each with different properties. That's not Christian doctrine as far as I'm aware. Christian doctrine holds that there was one man, being, called Jesus, who was simultaneously fully man - and therefore mortal, finite, etc. - and fully God, thus immortal, infinite, etc. This is a logical contradiction.
'We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.' H.L. Mencken
'False religion' is the ultimate tautology.
'It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.' Mark Twain
'I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.' Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 1, 2011 at 5:21 pm
That is the doctrine yes OO. It's only a contradiction if you assume both parts to be the same thing, which they are clearly not.
Posts: 647
Threads: 9
Joined: March 3, 2010
Reputation:
14
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 1, 2011 at 5:35 pm
Then I accept that it's logically tenable. It's still unclear though as to how the divine and mortal aspects of Jesus co-exist and interact.
'We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.' H.L. Mencken
'False religion' is the ultimate tautology.
'It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions.' Mark Twain
'I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.' Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 765
Threads: 40
Joined: August 8, 2010
Reputation:
21
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 2, 2011 at 1:05 am
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2011 at 6:02 am by Captain Scarlet.)
(March 1, 2011 at 2:05 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: scarlet Wrote:An atemporal being cannot act Unsupported and unsupportable assertion
No strawman Scarlett. So you are saying you are not interested in physical proof of God/ a soul/ Jesus being also God???
An atemporal being exists timelessly, without time action is NOT possible. This is supported by all of reality. You assert diffrently, so provide your evidence, proofs etc.
Yes it was a strawman, and you have just erected another: I did not say I was interested in physical proofs. But if you have some show some.
The facts of this debate is you have made 2 assertions about an acting but atemporal god, and a 100% man and 100% god being. Not backed them up, vaguley waffled about metaphysics and tried to shift the burden of proof. You have had numerous chances to defend your assertions and failed to do so. If this is the truth why is it so hard for you to explain it? As for atheists delibereately not understanding the points you are making, please take it as read that I REALLY DO NOT understand your proofs/explanations AT ALL.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
133
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 2, 2011 at 5:59 am
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2011 at 6:00 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(March 1, 2011 at 2:05 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Jesus the mortal man and Jesus the immortal God are not the same thing.
So your way of escaping the contradiction of Him being both mortal and immortal is to say that there are two of Him? There are two Jesuses? He's in the plural? First I heard of it (well, read of it).
Posts: 1571
Threads: 179
Joined: October 14, 2010
Reputation:
35
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 2, 2011 at 7:31 am
(March 1, 2011 at 2:05 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Well yet again Evie you conflate two different things (God and Man, Milk and Liquid, Mortality and Immortality) into one thing, when no one has ever said that any of those two things are together.
Jesus the mortal man and Jesus the immortal God are not the same thing. Jesus the man died. He is no more. He's dead. Jesus the God 'is'. He always was God. He always is God.
I recall that Hercules also came into this world via virgin birth. Is he a God? If not, why not?
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero
|
