Was Prophet Mohammed a caravan thieve?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tell ya, folks, let's all meet on the top of World Trade Center Tower One and discuss whether Islam is a religion of peace.

[WinterHold]

Bye. Don't wait for a ban, fuck right off. Your religion is vile, hateful and poisonous.

That's your opinion. You have the total right to believe in what you want.
Just don't you ever bite me, because I'll bite back.

[The Grand Nudger]

I am not providing formal syllogisms here for my faith, either. I am inviting you to read more about subjects you don't know well, and as a result, you can't see their worth.

If I am your only source about Islam, then this is a problem already. I might still convey things wrongly despite my best efforts, especially related to why we trust our oriental heritage. Besides, this subject is not about arguments for the Islamic faith.

It's not as if cogency is only an issue for formal syllogisms - and if you don't intend to argue for your faith...you sure spend alot of time accidentally trying and failing to do so.

No, you didn't find any. We have sayings today of Muhammad about minutious details of his life, thus we invoke *the rule of attention*. We don't have them in the case of Jesus, no rule invoked. You claimed followers copy batshit things differently, I answered followers take their idol seriously, plus they master their language well enough not to miss short idioms.. so don't strawman, please.

The christians had that too.  Rejected as apocrypha.  Found another!

Translations of the Qur'an might look boring - translations. You either should just learn Arabic to check whether the original is boring, or hear experts judgement about it. Creative and masterful? A book of guidance is about... guidance, not about satisfying one's imagination.

It's a hard one to rule out an historical Jesus... and no book is fabricated, they're just books of disciples of Jesus, by the christians own admission. They go to extreme measure merely to justify their link to Jesus. Nobody today, even christians, thinks that any random quote from the bible is from Jesus' mouth.

No, no, you misunderstand.  I think that the narrative in magic book is boring like so much of derivative literature is boring.  It's not an issue of translation, lol.  

Anyway, who's talking about jesus?  Not us.  We're talking about christ, the god-man.  Hard to rule him out...as a muslim? Do you find yourself convinced by any of these last few items we've found when you consider christian magic book, and christ?

Hell, it's not even an issue of truth. Lets assume that your magic book is true. These still wouldn't be compelling indicators of that. If you can understand why a christian would need a better argument, or a better set of indicators..if you prefer...then you should understand why you do when speaking to us.

I know..I know....you're just inviting me to read more about subjects I don't know well.

[WinterHold]

Tell ya, folks, let's all meet on the top of World Trade Center Tower One and discuss whether Islam is a religion of peace.

Al-Qaida is not Islam. It's a militia that American Army intersected with.

[The Grand Nudger]

All a part of gods plan.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bye. Don't wait for a ban, fuck right off. Your religion is vile, hateful and poisonous.

That's your opinion. You have the total right to believe in what you want.
Just don't you ever bite me, because I'll bite back.

Fuck you. You have a very porcine mouth. Swine in the family?

[R00tKiT]

The christians had that too.  Rejected as apocrypha.  Found another!

Curiously, biblical apocrypha has a lot in common with Islam. You should remember that Jesus is a prophet in Islam, too, that the early christians were righteous... according to Islam.

No, no, you misunderstand.  I think that the narrative in magic book is boring like so much of derivative literature is boring.  It's not an issue of translation, lol. 

Okay, noted.

Anyway, who's talking about jesus?  Not us.  We're talking about christ, the god-man.  Hard to rule him out...as a muslim?  Do you find yourself convinced by any of these last few items we've found when you consider christian magic book, and christ? 

I only think that the original, christian source, is gone, again, by their own admission. Can you argue that it's the case for Islam, too? Why should I investigate any further when I have a more recent Abrahamic message, with clear indication that the core doctrines are preserved verbatim? There are dozens of heretical beliefs about the central figures of christianity, it's a real fucking mess out there. When you proceed and try to make it look like we and the christians are somehow on the same boat.... you just don't know what you're talking about.

That being said, we have a reliable hadith explicitly forbiding any Muslim to reject/accept the christian holy books altogether. That is, recommanding Muslims to suspend judgement about the O/NT, it's well known it's a mess, but cannot be ruled out entirely.

Hell, it's not even an issue of truth.  Lets assume that your magic book is true.  These still wouldn't be compelling indicators of that.  If you can understand why a christian would need a better argument, or a better set of indicators..if you prefer...then you should understand why you do when speaking to us. 

Again, you're assuming we think christians got it all wrong. If christians are arguing for the existence of a god, they don't need a better argument, we generally appeal to the same literature. If they try to defend their core beliefs, they're forced to dwell into circularity by invoking the bible. Whereas, monotheism is much closer to any conclusion in some well known argument for the existence of god. The cosmological argument, for example, aims at proving a cause of the universe, in particular, not a cause split in three parts.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, Kloro...I'm assuming that you think that christians got the god-man part wrong, lol. Feel free to tell me otherwise.

Christians satisfied every indicator that you deigned to mention as something that made you confident in magic book. Clearly these things don't give you any confidence in any other context.

It is interesting at how similar christian apocrypha is to islam, isn't it? Have you ever considered why that might be, or read any books about syncretism in the ane?

[R00tKiT]

Christians satisfied every indicator that you deigned to mention as something that made you confident in magic book. 

No, pal. They didn't. They don't even have enough sources to start applying these "indicators". That's what I'm trying to explain to you. Muhammad is simply more recent, therefore, his existence, together with his sayings -thanks to all indicators mentioned above-, are more reliable.
I am repeatedly saying to you we're dealing with a lost Q source in christianity, and you tell me christians satisfied indicators...????

[The Grand Nudger]

The other take, the one with integrity, is to simply concede that they don't grant you confidence. You offered ad hoc rules of confidence, and are reduced to arguing reality when you failed to hold to them.

It doesn't harm the truth of your belief in islam. You wouldn't be the first person to think that some true thing was true for the wrong reasons, or no reason at all.