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Maybe there's something like a god out there.
#21
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
Gods can be any number of things...but no god is anything other than something that we've described, which you decided in the op was a bunch of obvious fiction.

Is there something else to the category?

You're asking us to consider something beyond or other than any human description....but you're a human, so your description, and your request...must by necessity be included. Perhaps you're incapable of describing a god which evades your own restrictions.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#22
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
Perhaps I am, and the limitations by which I am bound mean that all I can do is speculate and conceive of the possibility. Which puts me ahead of the bacterium, I assume.
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#23
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
The big bang didn't create physical laws. Those were in place.
The big bang is the result of change. The change came from instability and the energy of our universe expanded rapidly, cooled enough to make some elements like hydrogen & helium and the rest is history.

We can imagine all sorts of creatures and god like beings that could be out there, that could be watching us, that could be seeding planets so they can come back and harvest one day.

What does this imagination get us ? It gets us some really good stories derived from our creativity.

Does it get us any closer to the truth ?

NOPE

A child wonders what is under the bed or in the closet when the lights go out. It could be anything.
Tiny monsters that live under the bed and then grow to large size as soon as the lights go out.

Many a child has had nightmares about such things, but we grew out of that didn't we ?

Didn't we ?
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#24
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
For what that's worth, yeah. WB again, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#25
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
TY, sir.

(June 3, 2020 at 11:27 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: The big bang didn't create physical laws. Those were in place.
The big bang is the result of change. The change came from instability and the energy of our universe expanded rapidly, cooled enough to make some elements like hydrogen & helium and the rest is history.

We can imagine all sorts of creatures and god like beings that could be out there, that could be watching us, that could be seeding planets so they can come back and harvest one day.

What does this imagination get us ? It gets us some really good stories derived from our creativity.

Does it get us any closer to the truth ?

NOPE

A child wonders what is under the bed or in the closet when the lights go out. It could be anything.
Tiny monsters that live under the bed and then grow to large size as soon as the lights go out.

Many a child has had nightmares about such things, but we grew out of that didn't we ?

Didn't we ?

I don't know if it doesn't bring us closer to the truth. Imagination can run away from you, but it is also the key to opening the mind. It may not set you directly on a path to a hard truth, but allowing your mind to consider previously unconsidered possibilities is what leads to progress and understanding. Imagining there are monsters living under your bed isn't stupidity, it's how a child begins grappling with the concept of fearing the unknown. It's not about the monster under the bed, it's what that monster represents. 

Take Jesus, as an example. Now, you won't say anything about the religion I haven't, but as a historical figure (and I accept that he was), he had some good ideas about love, compassion and toleration, and even if the organized religion he inspired has not honored those ideas very well (to put it very mildly), the ideas have always been there and filtered down over the centuries to form the bedrock of liberal, enlightenment ideals. Strip away all the mystical bullshit, imagine Jesus being a secular dude preaching love, denying vengeance, and encouraging us to live by the better parts of our nature, and there's good stuff there. I wouldn't worship the dude as a god, but I would hang out with him and encourage the spread of that message. 

There's no way to ever know for sure, but it may very well have been that Jesus having these radical humanist ideas 2000 years ago could not have happened if he had not absorbed and interpreted all the wacky Jewish mysticism the way that he did. We would have a very different world today, and maybe not a better one, if it's lacking the seeds of humanism his existence eventually spread.
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#26
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
Jesus™ didn't get that part from jewish mysticism. That's the hellenist dissenter speaking. Not that this matters, ofc, since every culture seems to produce a humanist current. Might have something to do with culture being made up of humans.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#27
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
(June 4, 2020 at 8:40 am)Ryantology Wrote: Take Jesus, as an example. Now, you won't say anything about the religion I haven't, but as a historical figure (and I accept that he was), he had some good ideas about love, compassion and toleration [...] I would hang out with him and encourage the spread of that message.

And when he had anti-love ideas? What would you do then? When he said that who doesn't hate his own family and friends can't be his follower? Or when he said people should kill their own children as Moses commanded? And when he said people should cut their own hands and eyes when they admire nice looking women? Or that he will burn people in hell?

Would you preach that as well?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#28
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
(June 4, 2020 at 8:51 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(June 4, 2020 at 8:40 am)Ryantology Wrote: Take Jesus, as an example. Now, you won't say anything about the religion I haven't, but as a historical figure (and I accept that he was), he had some good ideas about love, compassion and toleration. Strip away all the mystical bullshit, imagine Jesus being a secular dude preaching love, denying vengeance, and encouraging us to live by the better parts of our nature, and there's good stuff there. I would hang out with him and encourage the spread of that message.

And when he had anti-love ideas? What would you do then? When he said that who doesn't hate his own family and friends can't be his follower? Or when he said people should kill their own children as Moses commanded? And when he said people should cut their own hands and eyes when they admire nice looking women? Or that he will burn people in hell?

Would you preach that as well?

I don't understand why you clipped out a part of my post and then replied to it as if it wasn't there...

Quote:Jesus™ didn't get that part from jewish mysticism. That's the hellenist dissenter speaking. Not that this matters, ofc, since every culture seems to produce a humanist current. Might have something to do with culture being made up of humans.

Probably true. 

Though, only one culture produced a humanist current which caught on and produced world-altering changes. The part about that which sucks is that it would not have done so if the Romans hadn't co-opted Christianity to turn it into a tool of imperial unification and spread it as far and wide as they did. That led to many centuries of darkness and a terrific amount of spilled blood, but it also inspired the thinkers of the Enlightenment, as well. The Christian religion contained the seeds of its own demise and spread them around the globe right alongside all the angry doom god shit.
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#29
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
You don't think that the humanist ethics contained in other cultures produce world-altering changes?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#30
RE: Maybe there's something like a god out there.
(June 4, 2020 at 9:17 am)Ryantology Wrote: I don't understand why you clipped out a part of my post and then replied to it as if it wasn't there...

Sorry man, I didn't get that you were imagining your own Jesus. Like a hippie Jesus.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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