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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:41 am
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2020 at 9:43 am by Angrboda.)
(October 15, 2020 at 9:39 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A True Democracy™ can be positively evil. Let go of the idea that everyone will eventually come around to The Right Idea. They won't.
And people aren't rational agents. Treating them that way, however, is not only wrong, it leads to even worse outcomes.
Galton's pig weighing experiment showed that the average of popular opinion is usually accurate. What we have now doesn't fix anything that needs fixing. People are shit. Depriving them of their say doesn't make things better.
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:41 am
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2020 at 9:43 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 15, 2020 at 9:39 am)Angrboda Wrote: The electoral college isn't functional toward any good end anymore, if it ever was. The founders had good intentions, but not everything they built should be preserved.
That's true enough, but is this the objection? If so, if it could be employed towards a functional good end, then it would no longer be a problem, but a solution.
This is exactly how the current GOP sees it - and they're not wrong in principle even if they are wrong in the details at present.
Similarly, people may not be rational agents (we disagree here), but even if they aren't..does that mean that they don't deserve representation? OFC not. The premise of democracy is that we all count, all of our opinions and allegiances, even the stupid irrational ones.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:42 am
(October 15, 2020 at 9:39 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A True Democracy™ can be positively evil. Let go of the idea that everyone will eventually come around to The Right Idea. They won't.
Did you also know that the founding fathers ensured that we could, as a unified people, make a change to the government if we were dissatisfied with how it was? I say it is about time we do that.
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:44 am
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2020 at 9:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
They sure did, and if you were the demographic in minority (either de facto or de jure) what tool, what lever would you use to bend the arc of american legislation back towards your concerns..which are valid, as a citizen of these united states - a democratic country?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:45 am
(October 15, 2020 at 9:44 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: They sure did, and if you were the demographic in minority (either de facto or de jure) what tool, what lever would you use to bend the arc of american legislation back towards your concerns..which are valid, as a citizen of these united states?
Social media.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:46 am
.............................. I rest the electoral colleges case, then.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:47 am
Are you resting as an expert or as one who devalues what it can do?
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:48 am
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2020 at 9:49 am by The Grand Nudger.)
As someone who values what it can do, actually. If the electoral college allows a demographic minority to pursue justice and proper legislation (as they see it, obvs), and we have a problem with a demographic majority not achieving that same justice or legislation - then retreating to social media to make the case is fucking idiotic.
Go post on facebook, other people will run the country while you do that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:50 am
Well, at least it has become apparent that you should do you and I should do me.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Petition to abolish the Electoral College
October 15, 2020 at 9:51 am
(October 15, 2020 at 9:41 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Similarly, people may not be rational agents (we disagree here), but even if they aren't..does that mean that they don't deserve representation? OFC not. The premise of democracy is that we all count, all of our opinions and allegiances, even the stupid irrational ones.
That's actually the argument for abolishing the electoral college. The EC represents states, disproportionately, and disenfranchises voters. Exactly what "good end" do you see being accomplished in that? The only beneficiary is minorities in smaller states.
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