Atheism & Bisexuality

[Alan]

Actually, no. There is no inherent reason to be homophobic. There are ENOUGH cultures that don't see homosexuality wrong or have different concepts of gender altogether (castrates and effeminate homosexuals are two good examples for third sexes in various cultures). Besides, we have less dogmatically biased studies on other species which show homosexual behaviour (though it doesn't take a biologist to see why human homosexual lifestyle is ultimately a genetic dead end).

As for the hiding: that's what I said. When you live in a society which considers your sexuality evil, it's safer to try to live asexually in an office that is expected to require celibacy than to live out your desires in secret.

[Jason Jarred]

Even in cultures that aren't hung up on religion or any religious moral codes, homosexuality is still seen as wrong. Thus, makes me wonder if this perspective is something that is just wired in humans. Which leads me to say this: it's NOT surprising to find a high number of pedophiles or homosexuals hiding out in the church. First, it appears they sought the church to hopefully help them overcome this so-called sinful behavior. Secondly, they can hide their sexuality (if they can resist temptation) because nobody is going to question why they aren't married, blah blah blah 'cause their excuse is that they're doing God's work.

Wow, my bullshit meter just hit the ceiling, and the crap is coming not only from the right but also from the left!
What's this business with homosexuals hiding out in the church? Please don't equate homosexuality with paedophilia, it only shows your ignorance on these two completely separate topics.
Secondly, I would dare say that religion only compounds these separate issues, pushing otherwise heterosexual males into actions of paedophilia as they attempt to suppress their sexual urges. Ok, I just took a completely random *hypothesis* of mine and threw it out there for discussion, but at least I'm identifying my *hypothesis* for what is. Neh?

As for homosexuals? I'm not aware that there are a particularly large percentage of homosexuals in the church, can you quote your sources please? Or is it possible that there really aren't that large a percentage, but that the homosexuals that *do* exist in the church, that you know of, are simply well known because of the religious implications surrounding such an issue?

[Alan]

I don't think there's more homosexuals in churches, but I would think that for a homosexual raised in a religious community, it's natural to go seeking for self-help by working in churches rather than live a life as outsider and in paranoia (dodging the dangerous questions like "Why isn't he married yet?" or "Why do we never see him with a woman?").

The alternative would be either being an outcast or leaving one's community behind (which childhood indoctrination keeps most people from).

[starbucks]

Even in cultures that aren't hung up on religion or any religious moral codes, homosexuality is still seen as wrong. Thus, makes me wonder if this perspective is something that is just wired in humans. Which leads me to say this: it's NOT surprising to find a high number of pedophiles or homosexuals hiding out in the church. First, it appears they sought the church to hopefully help them overcome this so-called sinful behavior. Secondly, they can hide their sexuality (if they can resist temptation) because nobody is going to question why they aren't married, blah blah blah 'cause their excuse is that they're doing God's work.

Wow, my bullshit meter just hit the ceiling, and the crap is coming not only from the right but also from the left!
What's this business with homosexuals hiding out in the church? Please don't equate homosexuality with paedophilia, it only shows your ignorance on these two completely separate topics.
Secondly, I would dare say that religion only compounds these separate issues, pushing otherwise heterosexual males into actions of paedophilia as they attempt to suppress their sexual urges. Ok, I just took a completely random *hypothesis* of mine and threw it out there for discussion, but at least I'm identifying my *hypothesis* for what is. Neh?

As for homosexuals? I'm not aware that there are a particularly large percentage of homosexuals in the church, can you quote your sources please? Or is it possible that there really aren't that large a percentage, but that the homosexuals that *do* exist in the church, that you know of, are simply well known because of the religious implications surrounding such an issue?

I never said that there was a higher number in the churches. I'm saying that it's not surprising to find many homosexuals or even pedophiles in the church since SOME atheists feel all Christians should be perfect and these sort of things should be obsolete.

In a culture where being homosexual or a pedophile is immoral, I'm not surprised if they've all turned to the church either to seek self-help or to avoid social confrontations.

In other cultures, though homosexuality is seen as unnatural and perverse, they DON'T GET PERSECUTED. It's not like they have to avoid getting stoned to death. Also, the religion of that culture is more for medicinal purposes than a "moral teacher" so nobody is preaching to them that what they're doing is ungodly or against Shamanism/Animism, etc.

And as far as pedophiles go, each case is treated differently. It's not immoral for an 8-year-old to be engaged. I'm not saying that I agree, I'm just saying that in some cultures the social norms are different.

[StewartP]

And as far as pedophiles go, each case is treated differently. It's not immoral for an 8-year-old to be engaged. I'm not saying that I agree, I'm just saying that in some cultures the social norms are different.

Well, I'm holding fire for the moment because I presume you mean it's not immoral for an 8 year old to be enagaged to be married at some later date and you are not talking about sexual intercourse with an 8 year old.

I won't even take you to task about the morality of making life choices for 8 year olds by engaing them for marriage.

Yet.

I'll prefer to wait for the confirmation of my understanding of your post.

[Rizzo]

Hah! I don't have any idea what my sexual orientation is right now!

(Well, okay, I thought I knew, but I've gone through alot over the past year, so.... things change!)

That being said, I think atheists tend to be more open minded and therefore are willing to admit that everyone is a little bisexual.

That being said, if you're 90% heterosexual, it really isn't significant enough to matter.

[Edwardo Piet]

I myself am totally straight..., but on the matter of why there are more 'atheist bis' - I don't think there necessarily are...I just think they come out of the closet more...

Religion gives you a reason to keep it to yourself more - keeps you in the closet I think, perhaps...? (for 'religious reasons'/'religious pressure').

Thoughts?

[Kyuuketsuki]

I myself am totally straight..., but on the matter of why there are more 'atheist bis' - I don't think there necessarily are...I just think they come out of the closet more...

Religion gives you a reason to keep it to yourself more - keeps you in the closet I think, perhaps...? (for 'religious reasons'/'religious pressure').

I think you might be right. I think a tolerant, more liberal, educated society tends to promote or allow for atheism and the same factors tend to promote or allow for other things such as non-straight sexuality, sexual liberation and general equality.

As I frequently say from education all good things come ... a little knowledge may be a dangerous thing but I'd bet that that is, in the main, only to those who rule over others traditionally more ignorant than them.

On paper at least I have pretty much everything going for me i.e. I'm white, straight, male, middle-class (professional really I suppose), intelligent & educated. And to cap it all I'm amazingly good looking and have a sense of style that would scare anyone else half to death hock:

Kyu

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

@Kyu

You left out your gifts for understatement and modesty.

[Kyuuketsuki]

You left out your gifts for understatement and modesty.

I was too modest to mention them

Kyu