Blaming the victim.

[Dotard]

I'd be interested in seeing that trial. After reading the article it seems nothing was said by this girl until pictures and videos were found out. I didn't read any indictments were made, only arrests.

For all we know she may have been a willing participant or whoring herself out. When caught she claims 'rape' to save face. For all we know she may have been made up the way decribed (make-up and clothing befitting a 20 something year old) advertising her services.

When someone is arrested for something it does not automaticly indicate guilt. I saw no statements from the accused admitting forced sex.

The 'victims' here just may not be her. Yes her 'customers' should be charged and prosecuted for statutory rape if this is indeed the case, but once she hollers 'Rape', it's nothing more than entrapment without the law enforcement agent.


One shouldn't be so quick to judge with only 1/2 the story or just a report of an arrest.



I was arrested once for possesion of cocaine. They turned me loose when they found out it was powered sugar in that baggie and not cocaine. I'm sure if you 'quicktojudge' fuks read in the police blotter "Dotard arrested for possesion of cocaine." I still wouldn't be living it down. Wait until more is known about the outcome of this before launching into 'victim blaming' when you are unsure who the actual victims are.

[thesummerqueen]

For all we know she may have been a willing participant or whoring herself out. When caught she claims 'rape' to save face. For all we know she may have been made up the way decribed (make-up and clothing befitting a 20 something year old) advertising her services.

My boyfriend's daughter is 10. She doesn't even understand the vaguest notion of the concept of "whoring". What girls that age do understand is that dressing a certain way gets a certain amount of attention - something girls hitting puberty all hunger for.

If you want to argue perspective, I'd love to know what this "dressing older" meant, since I've been aghast at some of the shit they sell to 14 year olds and younger. In a close community, probably highly religious too since it's in TX, they could have considered any number of styles to be "too old" for her.

My point still stands, Dotard - no way does an 11 year old, even if she does understand the concept of prostitution, in any fucking way resemble someone old enough to legally have sex. Even if she said "sure I'll gang bang a bunch of guys" she still is too young. If the middle schoolers are convicted, maybe they would have been lenient on that count and said "well the youth of today are depraved" or whatever else, but a 19 year old picking her up? Give me a break.

Don't pull that bullshit on me about "girls appear older" these days, either. Even if she did look older, she couldn't have appeared more than 16.

Rape victims often don't come forward out of fear or shame. That same video could also hold proof that she was coerced.

---

And Sae, my point about clothing was that I thought it was irrelevant in the face of the way the situation apparently escalated that someone accused her of "dressing beyond her age" and therefore I made a ridiculous example. There are men accused of gang raping her with video and pictorial evidence. In the case of rape, while I might well condemn a grown woman for wearing a skanky outfit in a bad part of town, the crime and blame still rests on the asshole who doesn't take "no" for an answer.

[Dotard]

If you want to argue perspective, I'd love to know what this "dressing older" meant, since I've been aghast at some of the shit they sell to 14 year olds and younger. In a close community, probably highly religious too since it's in TX, they could have considered any number of styles to be "too old" for her.

Who the hell is argueing 'perspective'? Only comment I made about that was it is entirely possible she may have been dressing and making herself up advertising.

My point still stands, Dotard - no way does an 11 year old, even if she does understand the concept of prostitution, in any fucking way resemble someone old enough to legally have sex. Even if she said "sure I'll gang bang a bunch of guys" she still is too young. If the middle schoolers are convicted, maybe they would have been lenient on that count and said "well the youth of today are depraved" or whatever else, but a 19 year old picking her up? Give me a break.

Who the hell said she resembles someone old enough to legally have sex? Who the hell is argueing that she was not too young? What the hell were you reading to get that from? And no, I ain't gonna give you a break. Since many here love to toss out ancedotal bullshit, lemme toss you one of mine.

One time, no not at band-camp, I met a girl who worked at the little Allah Snackbar where I worked. She looked no more than 12 years old. Chatting with co-workers I asked, "Is that the owners daughter helping daddy out?" One worker said, "I think she works there." Then we were all guessing her age. It turned into a little betting pool we all tossed money into. So we go to ask her. I got elected spokesperson so I ask her "How old are you?" 21 she says. o.O Whut?!
"Seriously, I am 21 years old." she states.
Me and her just start blabbing after that. I see her Texas I.D., we go on a couple dates, I meet her mama who confirms she is 21 years old.
Now me being the "put nothing past you evil women" type, suppose her and her 'momma' contrived this whole plan to entrap some dude into touching her, claim RAPE! and take the dude for all he's worth. -OR- after a couple 'dates' I find out that what she had was a fake I.D. and an older sister posing as her mama. Who would be the 'victim' in that case?

Don't pull that bullshit on me about "girls appear older" these days, either. Even if she did look older, she couldn't have appeared more than 16.

What the fuk are you reading? -OR- Who pissed in your Post-Toasties?
I said nothing about older appearing girls 'these days'. I must give you credit though, you knock those strawmen down fast as you put them up.
However 16 is legal in many states (some younger) and the whole of Europe I believe. I could be mistaken on that one.

Rape victims often don't come forward out of fear or shame.

Whatever. If they are not coming forward, how would you know this?

That same video could also hold proof that she was coerced.

---

Yeah, sure it could. Possible it could hold proof of the opposite. My point, which you seemed to have lost, is don't be so quick to judge when you do not know the whole story.

I think it's worth mentioning that out of 18 dudes not one heard about it and reported it? Are these 18 dudes accused of all raping her at the same time or was it spread out over some time such as days? Was she ever reported missing? Did she have any signs of being restrained?

You do not know enough to make such judgement calls.

And Sae, my point about clothing was that I thought it was irrelevant in the face of the way the situation apparently escalated that someone accused her of "dressing beyond her age" and therefore I made a ridiculous example. There are men accused of gang raping her with video and pictorial evidence. In the case of rape, while I might well condemn a grown woman for wearing a skanky outfit in a bad part of town, the crime and blame still rests on the asshole who doesn't take "no" for an answer.

The video and pictures are not evidence of rape. At this time they are pictures of an underaged girl having sex. Nothing more until proven different in a court of law.
You should condemn a grown woman for wearing a skanky outfit in the bad side of town. The CRIME rests on the asshole who doesn't take no for an answer, but the BLAME can be shared by that skanky dressed woman on the bad side of town.

Really, this has been all covered before in the "Objectifying Women" thread. I don't remember if you were around when that was active, but really, to continue here would just be a re-hashing of umpteen pages of text. If you could go and skim thru it then come back and give my arguements a good logical thrashing.

Or not, I'll do it all over again here if you wish.

[Violet]

My boyfriend's daughter is 10. She doesn't even understand the vaguest notion of the concept of "whoring". What girls that age do understand is that dressing a certain way gets a certain amount of attention - something girls hitting puberty all hunger for.

Hungering for attention is a very dangerous prospect when one is not prepared to deal with that attention, more so when has the attention and doesn't know what to do with it. Also, some people discover the internet earlier than others, some have mothers/sister/aunts putting their influence upon them, and some people drank way too much milk past infanthood. If all girls hitting puberty understand that how they dress affects the attention they receive: is it really such a stretch that they know why it does?

If you want to argue perspective, I'd love to know what this "dressing older" meant, since I've been aghast at some of the shit they sell to 14 year olds and younger. In a close community, probably highly religious too since it's in TX, they could have considered any number of styles to be "too old" for her.

Do we even have a picture of her? What is sold to people 14 and younger that you do't like being sold to them?

My point still stands, Dotard - no way does an 11 year old, even if she does understand the concept of prostitution, in any fucking way resemble someone old enough to legally have sex. Even if she said "sure I'll gang bang a bunch of guys" she still is too young. If the middle schoolers are convicted, maybe they would have been lenient on that count and said "well the youth of today are depraved" or whatever else, but a 19 year old picking her up? Give me a break.

I wonder what would happen if I disagreed with your assertion that she was too young (which i do). Too young for people older than their middle teens? Yes. Too old to be having sex? No.

The youth of today are not especially depraved... they see an offer for sex and they take it up because it's not common, and they are not likely to have sex at that time otherwise.

Don't pull that bullshit on me about "girls appear older" these days, either. Even if she did look older, she couldn't have appeared more than 16.

And even if she looked 16, she could easily have been 20 or older still. Presenting a fake ID would not have been so difficult.

Rape victims often don't come forward out of fear or shame. That same video could also hold proof that she was coerced.

I do not believe this on the principle of "How do you know it occurred if nobody reported it and you didn't stumble across it on your own?". I really don't get that assertion at all. Nor do I believe so many people are embarrassed or scared by/of those who rape them. Some? Sure. Often/many/most? Far from it.

And Sae, my point about clothing was that I thought it was irrelevant in the face of the way the situation apparently escalated that someone accused her of "dressing beyond her age" and therefore I made a ridiculous example. There are men accused of gang raping her with video and pictorial evidence. In the case of rape, while I might well condemn a grown woman for wearing a skanky outfit in a bad part of town, the crime and blame still rests on the asshole who doesn't take "no" for an answer.

Blame for an event's occurrence is shared fairly between all of the causes of the event. I honestly wonder why there would be video and pictorial evidence... clearly they did not take enough precautions when performing an activity that is illegal. Clothing is a relevant factor in this case, though it may have been an indirect cause.

[Dotard]

Sorry about the delayed edit. But since no one posted since I figured it was ok to add a couple things for clarification.

Thank You. Please come again.

(Add'l edit: And then Sae came along and screwed it all up. )

[Violet]

Sorry about the delayed edit. But since no one posted since I figured it was ok to add a couple things for clarification.

Thank You. Please come again.

(Add'l edit: And then Sae came along and screwed it all up. )

Perfectly timed that one, I did ^_^

My post landed in front of yours by ~ a minute ^_^

I feel awesome now, time for me to go back to leaching the blood out of everything and its mother's corpse on my blood mage ^_^

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Perhaps I should have said "someone holding basic common sense."

Lewis Black had a few thoughts on the dearth of that in this country as well.

An ELEVEN YEAR OLD CHILD?

Seems the mother is (take your pick) a stupid/ignorant/insensitive/indifferent/incompetent/criminally negligent twat.

Summer:in my experience 'common sense' is an oxymoron.

Some time ago,an Australian child psychiatrist made the public observation that "about 20% of parents have the parenting skills of an avocado"

Of course you can add many more who are just arseholes.

PS I hope all of the rapists go to gaol and make lots of new,intimate friends.

[The Skeptic]

Hide your kids, hide your wife...

If she was dressed like a tramp, then that speaks for itself how trashy girls dress these days. But that's beside the point, what makes those guys think its okay to rape the girl? Several of them? I find it ludicrous that several potential rapists just happen to know each other. There's some sort of mass-psychology thing going on there. I wonder if any psychologists have theories to explain gang rape. People sure are animals.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

If she was dressed like a tramp, then that speaks for itself how trashy girls dress these days.

Well no,it doesn't. It says only that an 11 year old child was allowed to dress badly by her fuckwitted mother. It says nothing whatsoever about "how trashy girls dress these days" .

I really don't give a fuck about the mass psychology. Those cunts knew what they were doing. Bad actions often have bad consequences. Now they wear those consequences.

---

For all we know she may have been a willing participant or whoring herself out. When caught she claims 'rape' to save face. For all we know she may have been made up the way decribed (make-up and clothing befitting a 20 something year old) advertising her services.

Dotard,for fuck sake! The kid is 11 years old,incapable of informed consent . THAT is child rape,no matter how you slice the rednecks.

[Dotard]

Hide your kids, hide your wife...

.... what makes those guys think its okay to rape the girl?

ALLEGED rape. It's an incomplete story. We have yet to hear from the defense.

I find it ludicrous that several potential rapists just happen to know each other.

So do I. I find it ludicrous out of all 18 of those dudes none of them either bothered to defend her or run off to call the cops. Maybe, just maybe they were there by invite.

There's some sort of mass-psychology thing going on there.

Seems more sensible instead of some "Mass-Psychology" going on it was a single 'psychology' of a sexually active preteen.

---

Yes, legally no matter if the 11 year old was a willing participant or was selling sexual services, the act is still considered by law Child Rape. I agree the dudes ought to be quartered and drawn knowing this girls age.

My point is still valid. We only know 1/2 the story. We have not yet heard from the defense. What of the possibility they did not know her true age. Maybe they were new to town. Maybe she could easily pass for 16 and 16 is the age of legal informed consent in many states and the whole of Europe. (or england or something like that)

We do not have enough information about this case to make such quick condemning judgements.