New theistic chew toys wanted!

[no one]

Believing the pretends and make believes is fine if your a child, plain and simple.

I honestly have no idea how anyone in the modern world can genuinely accept such utter horseshit!

[Ahriman]

In the reality of a theist, the God (or gods) he/she believe(s) in, is/are the most ideal thing(s). In a theist's mind, nothing gets better, or more important, than God (or the gods). Theists are hyper focused on God (or the gods), their whole lives revolve around God (or the gods). It should be obvious why nothing could ever replace something like this.

I've not known the vast majority of theists to be monks or nuns - their lives are organized around god about as much as my own, in practice - but I think I understand a little of where you're coming from.  Other people, you could grant, see other things to be as important or crucial as you or any theist may believe your god to be?

Yes, we get that you really like coke and think it's the best, but you do acknowledge that there are pepsi fans in the world too, right?

Is there anything you're obsessed with? (just out of curiosity)

[The Grand Nudger]

Plenty.

[Ahriman]

Plenty.

So you have gods. (in the philosophical sense)

[The Grand Nudger]

Not at all, I mean, if that's all that this belief rests on, a naked and absurd equivocation - then that's a mighty interesting belief about people -and gods- you've got there, isn't it?

[Ahriman]

Not at all, I mean, if that's all that this belief rests on, a naked and absurd equivocation - then that's a mighty interesting belief about people -and gods- you've got there, isn't it?

Not sure what you mean.

[The Grand Nudger]

That tomatoes can be gods, for example, since I'm obsessed with growing quality tomatoes - and, further, anyone who devotes a significant portion of themselves to a thing is in the business of god creation.

I'd have picked more obvious analogs than whatever a person is obsessed with. The things many people see as of incomparable quality, somehow - in a manner perhaps beyond any purely rational, material, or contingent description. Their state, their family, their so. Things they couldn't be without, and would rather be dead than lose. I probably think about those things like a very devout person thinks about their gods. I wouldn't die for a tomato, or kill for one.

[Ahriman]

That tomatoes can be gods, for example, since I'm obsessed with growing quality tomatoes - and, further, anyone who devotes a significant portion of themselves to a thing is in the business of god creation.

I'd have picked more obvious analogs than whatever a person is obsessed with.  The things many people see as of incomparable quality, somehow - in a manner perhaps beyond any purely rational, material, or contingent description.  Their state, their family, their so.  Things they couldn't be without, and would rather be dead than lose. I probably think about those things like a very devout person thinks about their gods.  I wouldn't die for a tomato, or kill for one.

No, but you might die or kill for a deep spiritual attachment to tomatoes.

[The Grand Nudger]

You think alot of weird shit - case in point. Do you not think that things like nation, culture, family, perish the thought..species...would be better examples of secular incomparables around which assertions of transcendent value are premised?

You're gonna run with the tomato thing, constructed gods?

I think that would be a terrible angle to try and assert god-values from, as, in that case, the gods are getting their value from us, and as that god value creator, we can make it appear anywhere, do anything, be whatever. Leading me right back round to the initial question. What exactly do we need gods to provide? What conceptual or tangible thing can only be premised on a belief in a god?

[Ahriman]

You think alot of weird shit - case in point.  Do you not think that things like nation, culture, family, perish the thought..species...would be better examples of secular incomparables around which assertions of transcendent value are premised?

You're gonna run with the tomato thing, constructed gods?

I think that would be a terrible angle to try and assert god-values from, as, in that case, the gods are getting their value from us, and as that god value creator, we can make it appear anywhere, do anything, be whatever.

Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?