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Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
#1
Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
I want to start by saying that I a man of science. I trust science and always will. What I dont trust is pharmaceutical companies.

The purpose of this post is to discuss the scientific validation of the COVID 19 vaccines. Pharmaceutical companies exist for profit, they are not institutions of health. As you may know, pharma companies hide real results or alter results of their tests on people, are willing to make you sick or even kill you for profit, etc. All of this is well documented.

Which brings me to my main point, how do we kow COVID vaccies are really effective, or not harmful? How do we know that if the COVID vaccines werent developed for profit, perhaps the available vaccines would be different ones from the current ones (more effective, less secondary effects, etc)? 

As you may know, the UK have immunity to pharma companies for any possible damages the vaccines could cause. Wouldnt you say this is suspicious? 

Again, I am NOT anti-vaxx. I trust well developed and tested vaccines. But I dont trust pharma rushing a vaccine and then hiding data from the public.

What do you think?
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#2
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
We know the vaccines are safe because 4.5 billion people have been vaccinated and the resultant deaths/ill effects from the vaccines are statistically negligible.

We know the vaccines are effective because there is a direct correlation between the percentage of a population that is vaccinated and a lower incidence of the disease.

It’s perfectly possible that the vaccines were developed with a profit motive, but so what? Simply because something is profitable doesn’t make it dangerous or ineffective.

It’s important to remember that virtually every vaccine in existence was either developed or perfected by a pharmaceutical company. Do you have the same fears about the vaccines for polio, measles and smallpox?

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#3
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
I could see your point if they were charging us for the vaccine, but it's free. The profit angle doesn't fit, like it does with overcharging for insulin shots.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#4
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
(March 19, 2022 at 7:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: We know the vaccines are safe because 4.5 billion people have been vaccinated and the resultant deaths/ill effects from the vaccines are statistically negligible.

We know the vaccines are effective because there is a direct correlation between the percentage of a population that is vaccinated and a lower incidence of the disease.

It’s perfectly possible that the vaccines were developed with a profit motive, but so what? Simply because something is profitable doesn’t make it dangerous or ineffective.

It’s important to remember that virtually every vaccine in existence was either developed or perfected by a pharmaceutical company. Do you have the same fears about the vaccines for polio, measles and smallpox?

Boru

I stated that I trust other vaccines because they have been well tested over time.

Regarding what you said, we now know the vaccines are safe because of the size of the test group. But what about before it? We weren’t really sure.

And regarding the profit part, when it comes to pharma and the health of people, it is dangerous. How many times have these companies been sued because they knowingly were making people sick? Even killing them, like with the asbestos situation?

(March 19, 2022 at 7:10 pm)Foxaire Wrote: I could see your point if they were charging us for the vaccine, but it's free. The profit angle doesn't fit, like it does with overcharging for insulin shots.

Every country bought the vaccines with tax money. Your money.
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#5
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
(March 19, 2022 at 7:14 pm)Macoleco Wrote:
(March 19, 2022 at 7:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: We know the vaccines are safe because 4.5 billion people have been vaccinated and the resultant deaths/ill effects from the vaccines are statistically negligible.

We know the vaccines are effective because there is a direct correlation between the percentage of a population that is vaccinated and a lower incidence of the disease.

It’s perfectly possible that the vaccines were developed with a profit motive, but so what? Simply because something is profitable doesn’t make it dangerous or ineffective.

It’s important to remember that virtually every vaccine in existence was either developed or perfected by a pharmaceutical company. Do you have the same fears about the vaccines for polio, measles and smallpox?

Boru

I stated that I trust other vaccines because they have been well tested over time.

Regarding what you said, we now know the vaccines are safe because of the size of the test group. But what about before it? We weren’t really sure.

And regarding the profit part, when it comes to pharma and the health of people, it is dangerous. How many times have these companies been sued because they knowingly were making people sick? Even killing them, like with the asbestos situation?

(March 19, 2022 at 7:10 pm)Foxaire Wrote: I could see your point if they were charging us for the vaccine, but it's free. The profit angle doesn't fit, like it does with overcharging for insulin shots.

Every country bought the vaccines with tax money. Your money.

The vaccines were tested on tens of thousands of people before general inoculations began. To say that vaccine development was rushed us somewhat misleading. The paperwork was rushed, not the science.

As for profit, the pharmaceutical companies actually made far less by selling vaccines to government than they would have if they sold it retail.

Are you vaccinated for COVID?

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#6
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
(March 19, 2022 at 6:51 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I want to start by saying that I a man of science. I trust science and always will. What I dont trust is pharmaceutical companies.

The purpose of this post is to discuss the scientific validation of the COVID 19 vaccines. Pharmaceutical companies exist for profit, they are not institutions of health. As you may know, pharma companies hide real results or alter results of their tests on people, are willing to make you sick or even kill you for profit, etc. All of this is well documented.

Which brings me to my main point, how do we kow COVID vaccies are really effective, or not harmful? How do we know that if the COVID vaccines werent developed for profit, perhaps the available vaccines would be different ones from the current ones (more effective, less secondary effects, etc)? 

As you may know, the UK have immunity to pharma companies for any possible damages the vaccines could cause. Wouldnt you say this is suspicious? 

Again, I am NOT anti-vaxx. I trust well developed and tested vaccines. But I dont trust pharma rushing a vaccine and then hiding data from the public.

What do you think?
Two statements here really stand out 


Quote:As you may know, the UK have immunity to pharma companies for any possible damages the vaccines could cause. Wouldnt you say this is suspicious? 
Immunity against suing pharmaceutical companies exists because of periods were people posed frivolous or false lawsuits in large numbers but were not able to provide any evidence that it was the vaccine that caused the injury. Instead, most countries have some form of no-fault compensation program to avoid this issue.


Quote:Again, I am NOT anti-vaxx. I trust well developed and tested vaccines. But I dont trust pharma rushing a vaccine and then hiding data from the public.
The Vaccines have NOT RUSHED the basis for them was developed over the years and the Vaccines themselves were developed within a reasonable framework considering resources and the fact we already knew a great deal about the RNA sequence of Coronaviruses

To quote John Hopkins 

Quote:development of the COVID-19 vaccine, so its effectiveness and safety cannot be trusted.

FACT: Studies found that the two initial vaccines are both about 95% effective — and reported no serious or life-threatening side effects. There are many reasons why the COVID-19 vaccines could be developed so quickly. Here are just a few:
  • The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

  • China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.

  • The vaccine developers didn’t skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

  • Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

  • Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

  • Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

  • Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

  • Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/c...ersus-fact

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/article...so-quickly
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

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 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#7
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
I'm so over this. Take the vaccine or not, I no longer care.

Or just go to a covid party and get it over with.

Your choice.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#8
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
(March 19, 2022 at 7:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The vaccines were tested on tens of thousands of people before general inoculations began. To say that vaccine development was rushed us somewhat misleading. The paperwork was rushed, not the science.

As for profit, the pharmaceutical companies actually made far less by selling vaccines to government than they would have if they sold it retail.
For the record, if you want some insight into how vaccine development ended up going so fast, Philosophy Tube actually does some explaining in her latest video (specifically starting at the nine minute mark)



TL;DR: Turns out that a big portion of why vaccine trials take so long is because a lot of it involves waiting on funding the fucking things.

We could probably develop vaccines for a shitton of other diseases as quickly as we did COVID, but, of course, that requires funding, and that's where the limitations of capitalism come into play. The fact that those other diseases aren't currently ravaging the world like the angel of death spreading his wings on the blast and blowing in the face of Sennacherib is also a major reason. Why, yes, that does suck.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

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I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#9
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
(March 19, 2022 at 6:51 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I want to start by saying that I a man of science. I trust science and always will. What I dont trust is pharmaceutical companies.

The purpose of this post is to discuss the scientific validation of the COVID 19 vaccines. Pharmaceutical companies exist for profit, they are not institutions of health. As you may know, pharma companies hide real results or alter results of their tests on people, are willing to make you sick or even kill you for profit, etc. All of this is well documented.

Which brings me to my main point, how do we kow COVID vaccies are really effective, or not harmful? How do we know that if the COVID vaccines werent developed for profit, perhaps the available vaccines would be different ones from the current ones (more effective, less secondary effects, etc)? 

As you may know, the UK have immunity to pharma companies for any possible damages the vaccines could cause. Wouldnt you say this is suspicious? 

Again, I am NOT anti-vaxx. I trust well developed and tested vaccines. But I dont trust pharma rushing a vaccine and then hiding data from the public.

What do you think?

You are quite right not to trust pharmaceutical companies. They're greedy little bastards. Similarly, don't trust governments. They're generally inept and variably corrupt.

What you should trust is all the third party verification. A lot of very talented people without links to either pharma or government have gone over the data with a fine-toothed comb. If there were problems then these people would have exposed them long ago. In fact, this is why you know about the Moderna vaccine's problem with myocarditis and J&J's issues with clotting.

It should also be noted that there has been no legal immunity offered to any pharmaceutical company for fraud or negligence. If they got caught cooking the books they'd be buried alive.
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#10
RE: Regarding the COVID 19 vaccines
The technology for the MRNA vaccine(s) had been designed and tested for years prior to covid with SARS and MERS. The adenovirus vaccine model has been used for years prior to covid application. Whining that there was not enough development time or testing is just that, whining.

If the person has an unfounded fear that's their personal issue.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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