God's law or private law?

[Leonardo17]

13th of December 2022. The IRI which is supposedly governed by Sharia of “divine” law executes the 23 year old Majidreza Rahnavard and three other protesters based on a false confession basically for no longer be willing to live under this completely tyrannical Regime.
 
13th of December 2022 is also the date of the Nice trials. The perpetrator of the Nice attack in 2016 who ran into the crowd with a truck and murdered 86 people (for no reason or “in the name of God”) (!!!) was shot by the police because he was very dangerous. His collaborators where than arrested. Throughout investigations were done and on this date the verdict was issued:

“Judges convicted the main defendants, Mohamed Ghraieb and Chokri Chafroud, of participating in a terrorist conspiracy and sentenced them to 18 years in prison. Other defendants were found guilty of less-serious crimes such as arms trafficking, with sentences ranging from two to 12 years in jail.”
 
The two gentleman mentioned above didn’t even speak in court (They are fanatical terrorist who will not answer to secular law (or something like that)). Yet, şnvestigations were done, the court of justice happened, the victims families were heard and a verdict that is based on reason and the very principle was issued.
 
See:

1) Youth = Not even guilty, foced confession, death by hanging (23 year old young man)
2) Murderer, fanatic, collaborator with a terrorist, full of hate, evil person = fair trial, civilized approach, throughout investigation, verdict based on reason an on the principle of Justice.
 
So the question has to be what is “Sharia Law” or “Divine Law”?

There is only two possibilities:

a) This possibility is blasphemy for me and I will not talk about it.

b) In this possibility there is a huge problem (both religious and philosophical) with people pretending to be applying “sharia” law. And if their “hatred of the west” is based on this, I think they should begin hating themselves a little bit. There has to be some sort of self-critisism inside every man and woman in this world. (what are you even talking about?)

[Leonardo17]

Sorry, I was in a hurry yesterday. The title was going to be “Gods law or private law?”

I was also going to put this link somewhere in the text.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/12/14/nice...ck-rampage

Thank You.

[arewethereyet]

Sorry, I was in a hurry yesterday. The title was going to be “Gods law or private law?”

I was also going to put this link somewhere in the text.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/12/14/nice...ck-rampage

Thank You.

Bold mine
Fixed that

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17

You seem shocked that the Iran regime tortures people into confessing and then executes them on false charges. I don’t understand your surprise.

Boru

[Belacqua]

I think they should begin hating themselves a little bit. There has to be some sort of self-critisism inside every man and woman in this world. (what are you even talking about?)

This seems like good advice to me. There's not enough self-hate in the world. 

I can't speak about Iran. To me, though, people often seem to confuse self-generated private law with God's law. They assume that because they feel really strongly about it, that God must be supporting it. This is what comes of having people say "I don't have a religion; I have a personal relationship with Jesus." 

Since America is built, supposedly, on self-reliance and individual liberty, the American brands of religion often support these independent qualities. More traditional religions, including Islam I suppose, say far more about the responsibilities one has to the group. The written law still has some sway with old-fashioned religions -- to be a good member of that religion, one might have to actually control his own desires. Americans hate the term obedience, and not pursuing one's desire is seen as weakness. 

By ignoring the difficult demands that traditional religion put on people, and assuming that what I really want is what God must want too, we lose a key method of doing self-criticism.

Recently on another thread we were talking about a certain TV series. It was explained to me that, according to the show, if something is really really important to you, you no longer have to follow the moral norms of your society to get or protect that thing. In other words, even for atheists the voice of the community is very easy to ignore -- if you personally decide that morality is not relevant to you, you can forget it. 

We need far more self-criticism, and more attention to ethical examples that demonstrate going against one's own desires.

[arewethereyet]

More self-hate. Fabulous advice. Really a mentally healthy approach to life.

/sarcasm

[Belacqua]

they should begin hating themselves a little bit. There has to be some sort of self-critisism inside every man and woman in this world. (what are you even talking about?)

Years ago I read a long philosophical novel by Iris Murdoch -- a splendid writer who deserves to be much better known.

Near the end of the book, after many events and much discussion, one of the characters says, "We should live quietly and learn to hate ourselves." (This was spoken by a character, not by Murdoch herself, so it isn't necessarily the view of the author. Nonetheless the character was presented as a reasonable person, which meant that her words were not to be taken as insane.)

Naturally this seemed very strange to me. As a young American I had been raised to think that loving yourself was always best, that the schools are there largely to foster "self-esteem," and the best way to go through life is to forgive yourself as quickly and thoroughly as possible. For example, "Of course I shot all those kids at the school, but I'm not really a bad guy." 

It's taken me a long time to ponder the wisdom of giving up self-love. There are Buddhist approaches, but also (as always) Western sources which parallel the Eastern wisdom.

[arewethereyet]

they should begin hating themselves a little bit. There has to be some sort of self-critisism inside every man and woman in this world. (what are you even talking about?)

Years ago I read a long philosophical novel by Iris Murdoch -- a splendid writer who deserves to be much better known.

Near the end of the book, after many events and much discussion, one of the characters says, "We should live quietly and learn to hate ourselves." (This was spoken by a character, not by Murdoch herself, so it isn't necessarily the view of the author. Nonetheless the character was presented as a reasonable person, which meant that her words were not to be taken as insane.)

Naturally this seemed very strange to me. As a young American I had been raised to think that loving yourself was always best, that the schools are there largely to foster "self-esteem," and the best way to go through life is to forgive yourself as quickly and thoroughly as possible. For example, "Of course I shot all those kids at the school, but I'm not really a bad guy." 

It's taken me a long time to ponder the wisdom of giving up self-love. There are Buddhist approaches, but also (as always) Western sources which parallel the Eastern wisdom.

Always to the extreme when you can bash Americans.  

What good does self-hate do in your esteemed opinion? 

You read a book.  The author said a thing.  You internalized it.  Imagine that.  Is there no middle ground?  Like self governance that is between hating yourself and loving yourself.

[WinterHold]

I think they should begin hating themselves a little bit. There has to be some sort of self-critisism inside every man and woman in this world. (what are you even talking about?)

This seems like good advice to me. There's not enough self-hate in the world. 

I can't speak about Iran. To me, though, people often seem to confuse self-generated private law with God's law. They assume that because they feel really strongly about it, that God must be supporting it. This is what comes of having people say "I don't have a religion; I have a personal relationship with Jesus." 

Since America is built, supposedly, on self-reliance and individual liberty, the American brands of religion often support these independent qualities. More traditional religions, including Islam I suppose, say far more about the responsibilities one has to the group. The written law still has some sway with old-fashioned religions -- to be a good member of that religion, one might have to actually control his own desires. Americans hate the term obedience, and not pursuing one's desire is seen as weakness. 

By ignoring the difficult demands that traditional religion put on people, and assuming that what I really want is what God must want too, we lose a key method of doing self-criticism.

Recently on another thread we were talking about a certain TV series. It was explained to me that, according to the show, if something is really really important to you, you no longer have to follow the moral norms of your society to get or protect that thing. In other words, even for atheists the voice of the community is very easy to ignore -- if you personally decide that morality is not relevant to you, you can forget it. 

We need far more self-criticism, and more attention to ethical examples that demonstrate going against one's own desires.

Iran is ruled by the new doctrine called "Velayat-e faqih" or in Arabic ولاية الفقيه, literally translated to "state of the jurisprudence (my personal translation)":

https://institute.global/policy/what-velayat-e-faqih

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_s...ic_of_Iran

It's a very new law formulated in the 70s, and it's pure dictatorship: it says that all power is in the hands of a crooked old fart called the "Faqih" (hence the name), so 1 man holds all power in the state, the government believes he is "heavenly divine", the current "Faqih" is this drauger:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei

Doesn't this ring a bell? North Korea, Saudi Arabia are all carbon copies, all are disgusting states with terrible human rights violations.

The funny thing is that Uncle sam loves to take allies from these states and turn a blind eye to their medieval scam systems called governments; while in reality they are nothing but cutthroat gangsters.

Iran is using Islam just like Saudi Arabia used it before it, so the OP should direct his criticism to the master manipulator instead of the small pawns.

Don't forget that uncle Sam and aunt Hillary loved to sell weapons to the Shiite Imam so he kill the Sunni of Iraq.

[WinterHold]

Years ago I read a long philosophical novel by Iris Murdoch -- a splendid writer who deserves to be much better known.

Near the end of the book, after many events and much discussion, one of the characters says, "We should live quietly and learn to hate ourselves." (This was spoken by a character, not by Murdoch herself, so it isn't necessarily the view of the author. Nonetheless the character was presented as a reasonable person, which meant that her words were not to be taken as insane.)

Naturally this seemed very strange to me. As a young American I had been raised to think that loving yourself was always best, that the schools are there largely to foster "self-esteem," and the best way to go through life is to forgive yourself as quickly and thoroughly as possible. For example, "Of course I shot all those kids at the school, but I'm not really a bad guy." 

It's taken me a long time to ponder the wisdom of giving up self-love. There are Buddhist approaches, but also (as always) Western sources which parallel the Eastern wisdom.

Always to the extreme when you can bash Americans.  

What good does self-hate do in your esteemed opinion? 

You read a book.  The author said a thing.  You internalized it.  Imagine that.  Is there no middle ground?  Like self governance that is between hating yourself and loving yourself.

Americans deserve to be bashed.
Look, you have freedom. You can make change. You can elect good people, but you always elect cutthroat bastards like Trump and Biden, you pay for your beasts in the military to keep the wheel of death called "Yankee foreign policy" turning; your money gave your army weapons to pulverise my land, befriend fucking filthy warlords like the Sauds !

So....really how many did you kill in Iraq?
No seriously, search your basement. Maybe the WMDs are hidden there..let's ask your ex agent Saddam.
Damn. You snuffed him.