The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.

[brewer]

@Nishant Xavier

Yes, I am assuming that. Natural Numbers are Numbers that exist in Nature. How can there be being -3 (the -3rd being in existence) for e.g? There can be First Being in existence, 2nd Being in existence, and so on. And also, regarding 0, unless you want to say "there are 0 Elephants in the locker" is a meaningful statement, 0 would not be a natural number; certainly there is no such thing as a "zeroth being".

Have you never dug a hole (which we know exists in nature)? Consider the starting point before digging as zero. Then start digging and pile the dirt from the hole into one spot. The pile becomes the positive (expansion), the hole becomes the negative (regression). So the surface of the ground is zero and has infinite space/time on either side. The more you pile up adds to infinite expansion. The more you take out is infinite regression. This can go on forever. Yet the never ending bottom of the hole exists. So the possibility of infinite regression can exist, which does not help tommies claim that infinite regression can't exist. Tommies argument comes from a presupposition that there is a god, which in itself is at best an assumption/assertion used to validate his personal belief/faith.

I've made this as simple as I can for you. Infinite expansion and regression are two sides on the same coin. Let me know if you actually understand.

[Fake Messiah]

Your friend, let's call him Friend 1, wants to borrow something from you, it can be a ball or a loan or anything, that's not important. Now, he says he will give it to you, but there's a condition; he himself will borrow it from Friend 2, to give it to you. Friend 2 in turn does so from Friend 3, and so on and on and on.

It is appropriate that you use the Ponzi scheme to explain your god since they are both scams.

we do however believe St. Augustine and St. Thomas were Deep Thinkers, Great Philosophers, and Beautiful Theologians, as they clearly were

These guys were bigoted antisemitic cunts. Only a brainwashed lunatic would worship them like you do.

an increasing number of Atheists (more than 55% according to a recent poll) believe in Aliens, and some even hold to the hypothesis that Aliens created life on Earth

Total brainwashed nonsense that can only come from someone living in a religious bubble.

[Anomalocaris]

No matter how interested I am in a thread, Bel can always quash that interest.

It's a gift.

Treat his existence as a value equal to his intellectual integrity and you will find it impossible to detect his existence no matter how much he jumps up and down demanding to be taken as a seriously annoying twit.

[Deesse23]

an increasing number of Atheists (more than 55% according to a recent poll) believe in Aliens, and some even hold to the hypothesis that Aliens created life on Earth

It has been explained to you numerous times what Atheism is and what not. Why are you pretending not to have read or understood these replies? Why are you lying? Or are you really too stupid to understand?

[The Architect Of Fate]

an increasing number of Atheists (more than 55% according to a recent poll) believe in Aliens, and some even hold to the hypothesis that Aliens created life on Earth

So ? even if that were true it's hardly a universal position 

[Deesse23]

Divine Simplicity

Begging the divine question

[Peebothuhlu]

"An increasing number of Atheists (more than 55% according to a recent poll) believe in Aliens,..."

"...And some even hold to the hypothesis that Aliens created life on Earth.

Okay, just a point.

I identify as a 'Non-theist', and I have a justified belief that there are 'Aliens'.

There is life on this planet. We know of other planets. There is the possibility of life being on those planets just like on this planet.

I do not then weird jump to "Aliens done made the life on this planet."

Life being on a planet is a separate issue;  apart from 'How did life (Biology) arise' on any particular planet.

Though I am now willing to place a bet at what will be an apparent lack of understanding of said above points.

[Nishant Xavier]

Helios, and I did not say it was universal. I said, rather, alien creators would lead to an infinite regress, and thus would not exclude the need for a first cause. You can check up Directed Panspermia. That's what it called in the literature. I would also give links for the 55% thing if 30 days were up, but you can find it by a brief Google Search.

Brewer, ok, you can do that. But no matter how much dirt you pile up, the amount will always be finite. An actual infinite cannot be formed by successive addition.

Fake Messiah, no, actually, you're a Militant Atheist and a bigoted Christophobe with a brainwashed paranoia against Christians.

Deese, no, I'm not. I understand what Atheism is better than you, and that's why I know it's not incompatible with (although it doesn't require) a belief in Aliens.

[And yeah, I'm going to respond in kind to some of you Militant Atheists from now on. Just putting you on notice. To others, I will respond normally]

Peebothuhlu, ok, I understand your perspective. I may not agree with it but I understand it. You are an Atheist. You believe in Aliens. You say, because life exists here, it may exist elsewhere also. That's fine and I understand. Whether you believe in Panspermia or not is a separate issue. You said you don't. I also don't. Some do. Articles have been written about it. As for the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, created by God, existing somewhere else in the Universe, I don't exclude it altogether. The point here is that only, even were all of that true, a First Cause would still exist, based on pure mathematics. You can never show that a B1, a First Being does not exist, unless you posit an Infinite Number of Beings. And because an Infinite Number of Beings cannot exist, therefore, a First Being exists, and being the first, He is not contingent on a prior being.

[Fake Messiah]

Fake Messiah, no, actually, you're a Militant Atheist and a bigoted Christophobe with a brainwashed paranoia against Christians.

So you worship Augustine and Aquinas whose treatises on killing heretics caused the deaths of millions of Christians, but I am Christianophobe? No. You are projecting on me because you don't want to admit how brainwashed you are.

[Peebothuhlu]

(1) Peebothuhlu, ok, I understand your perspective.

(2) I may not agree with it but I understand it.

(3) You are an Atheist. You believe in Aliens.

(4) You say, because life exists here, it may exist elsewhere also. That's fine and I understand. Whether you believe in Panspermia or not is a separate issue. You said you don't. I also don't. Some do. Articles have been written about it. As for the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, created by God, existing somewhere else in the Universe, I don't exclude it altogether.

(5) The point here is that only, even were all of that true, a First Cause would still exist, based on pure mathematics. You can never show that a B1, a First Being does not exist, unless you posit an Infinite Number of Beings. And because an Infinite Number of Beings cannot exist, therefore, a First Being exists, and being the first, He is not contingent on a prior being.

(1) Yay... but then I read on.

(2) What is not to agree with in my line of thought? We exist on a planet. There is evident life on this planet. We have actual detections of other planets in a myriad of shapes and stages of development. What precludes life from possibly being on other planets?

(3) No. I identify as a 'Non-theist'. To clarify, "I see nothing to indicate ANY supernatural exists." Hence, once the supernatural is demonstrated, we can move on to examining other claims related to such.

(4) 'Panspermia' never entered into my post. Also, that articles have been written about a great many things is both awesome and not really pertaining currently to our conversation.

(5) So, firstly, I have no problems or issues with 'Infinite Regress' in its many presentations/iterations. I find nothing illogical or contradictory about such a concept. Secondly, your post has already smuggled in a 'Being' simply by your word usage. You post 'A starting point'; must exist somewhere back there. I see no such need. At this point, I think our minds-sets are 'Potatoe/Tomato."

Glad our conversation is moving forwards, and am also glad I didn't buy a lottery ticket.

Cheers.