Ecclesiastes 9:5

[FlatAssembler]

In the Vulgate in Ecclesiastes 9:5, it says "...quia oblivioni tradita est memoria eorum.". Does that mean "...because the memory containing them has been given to oblivion." or does that mean "...because the memory they posessed in their heads has been given to oblivion."? Or maybe something else?

Does anybody here speak Hebrew to tell me how it is in the original?

I have also asked this question on Latin StackExchange, as asking such questions there seems like a tried-and-proven way to increase your reputation there.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

In the Vulgate in Ecclesiastes 9:5, it says "...quia oblivioni tradita est memoria eorum.". Does that mean "...because the memory containing them has been given to oblivion." or does that mean "...because the memory they posessed in their heads has been given to oblivion."? Or maybe something else?

Does anybody here speak Hebrew to tell me how it is in the original?

I have also asked this question on Latin StackExchange, as asking such questions there seems like a tried-and-proven way to increase your reputation there.

See your Revelation thread.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

In the Vulgate in Ecclesiastes 9:5, it says "...quia oblivioni tradita est memoria eorum.". Does that mean "...because the memory containing them has been given to oblivion." or does that mean "...because the memory they posessed in their heads has been given to oblivion."? Or maybe something else?

Does anybody here speak Hebrew to tell me how it is in the original?

I have also asked this question on Latin StackExchange, as asking such questions there seems like a tried-and-proven way to increase your reputation there.

Have you noticed that your multiple threads here aren't doing a damn thing for your reputation?

Also...if you are posting the same things on multiple sites, you are spamming the forum.  

That means breaking a rule.

[FlatAssembler]

In the Vulgate in Ecclesiastes 9:5, it says "...quia oblivioni tradita est memoria eorum.". Does that mean "...because the memory containing them has been given to oblivion." or does that mean "...because the memory they posessed in their heads has been given to oblivion."? Or maybe something else?

Does anybody here speak Hebrew to tell me how it is in the original?

I have also asked this question on Latin StackExchange, as asking such questions there seems like a tried-and-proven way to increase your reputation there.

Have you noticed that your multiple threads here aren't doing a damn thing for your reputation?

Also...if you are posting the same things on multiple sites, you are spamming the forum.  

That means breaking a rule.

OK, I get it, people here (except perhaps @Belaqua) do not like low-level Biblical criticism.

[Angrboda]

Look up the passage in an interlinear bible.

[Astreja]

"Memoria eorum" translates as "the memory of them" - in other words, others' memories of the deceased. Very common on war memorials - the motto of the Royal Canadian Legion is "Memoriam Eorum Retinebimus," or "We will remember them" (retain the memory of them).

The passage essentially means that [others'] memories of the dead will eventually fade into nothingness.

[Belacqua]

people here (except perhaps @Belaqua) do not like low-level Biblical criticism.

It's kind of you to think of me. I really do enjoy these translation questions, though you'll find I have little Latin and less Hebrew.

I've found this web site useful for Old Testament language:

https://biblehub.com/text/ecclesiastes/9-5.htm

As you can see, Hebrew grammar is different from English, so the sentence can appear as just a string of words and we have to be careful how we reassemble them. It's sometimes helpful to click on the Hebrew term and see different examples of the same term from different chapters. So in this case, ziḵ-rām is a key word and it helps to see how it's used elsewhere. 

I'm told that the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible in English has translations that are the most accurate, in the eyes of language scholars. Here is the page for Ecclesiastes 9:5:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ion=NRSVUE

5 The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no more reward, and even the memory of them is lost.

It's certainly in keeping with the pessimism of the rest of Ecclesiastes, which makes such an interesting contrast with other parts of the Bible.

[FlatAssembler]

I'm told that the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible in English has translations that are the most accurate, in the eyes of language scholars.

I've always thought the New International Version was the most accurate. It says, for Ecclesiastes 9:5, "...and even their name is forgotten.".

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I prefer Young’s Literal Translation, as it seems to do the best job of preserving the tenses of the original Hebrew and Koine Greek. It’s a little jarring at first, as we’re all used to past tense in verses like, ‘And God said “Let there be light” and there was light’, which Young renders, ‘And God sayeth ‘Let light be”, and light is’, which, according to my Hebrew-fluent wife, is a much more accurate translation.

Boru

[FlatAssembler]

I prefer Young’s Literal Translation, as it seems to do the best job of preserving the tenses of the original Hebrew and Koine Greek. It’s a little jarring at first, as we’re all used to past tense in verses like, ‘And God said “Let there be light” and there was light’, which Young renders, ‘And God sayeth ‘Let light be”, and light is’, which, according to my Hebrew-fluent wife, is a much more accurate translation.

Boru

Well, I've heard that tenses in Hebrew work very differently from tenses in English, like that Hebrew has no future tenses but uses present tenses for future things, and you are supposed to guess by context whether the speaker is referring to something in present or something in the future. But which tense is "sayeth"?