Karma's a ***!

[zwanzig]

I admit a bit of ignorance when it comes to karma or the concept of karma. But it doesn't really matter, because we're not actually talking about people who truly adhere to the ideology of karma. We're talking about the common, U.S. based usage of karma as a word to indicate the universe paying back what you have done, usually in a negative context where someone does something bad, something that someone else doesn't personally like, etc. Where karma is invoked to comfort the one slighted with the reassurance that "so and so might have gotten their way for now but they will be punished eventually."

I find it a bit ridiculous because of how subjective it is as a concept. Like, from your perspective, something bad happened, but does it really mean that person then deserves not to get their way later? Sometimes it's used to reference deliberately anti-social behaviors where someone is being rude or harmful to others. But everyone has justifications for why they personally chose to do something hurtful and if ever their reason is "because I'm an asshole and I like to make others suffer" we usually think "oh, there's something wrong with that person. Like they're broken or something isn't working as it should in their minds." Do they really deserve to simply be punished at that point? I mean, if there's something broken about them already, doesn't that deserve some compassion and empathy?

Anyway, I think people who invoke karma as their own revengeful/wishful thinking are abhorrent and probably canceling out how karma decides who should suffer or not. Like, if you ever think "Karma will get them" or "their time will come" you're not a good person anymore. Just saying.

[Belacqua]

I admit a bit of ignorance when it comes to karma or the concept of karma. But it doesn't really matter, because we're not actually talking about people who truly adhere to the ideology of karma. We're talking about the common, U.S. based usage of karma as a word to indicate the universe paying back what you have done, usually in a negative context where someone does something bad, something that someone else doesn't personally like, etc. Where karma is invoked to comfort the one slighted with the reassurance that "so and so might have gotten their way for now but they will be punished eventually."

I find it a bit ridiculous because of how subjective it is as a concept. Like, from your perspective, something bad happened, but does it really mean that person then deserves not to get their way later? Sometimes it's used to reference deliberately anti-social behaviors where someone is being rude or harmful to others. But everyone has justifications for why they personally chose to do something hurtful and if ever their reason is "because I'm an asshole and I like to make others suffer" we usually think "oh, there's something wrong with that person. Like they're broken or something isn't working as it should in their minds." Do they really deserve to simply be punished at that point? I mean, if there's something broken about them already, doesn't that deserve some compassion and empathy?

Anyway, I think people who invoke karma as their own revengeful/wishful thinking are abhorrent and probably canceling out how karma decides who should suffer or not. Like, if you ever think "Karma will get them" or "their time will come" you're not a good person anymore. Just saying.

I suspect that in a lot of cases, saying "later on that person will get what's coming to him" is a way we have of reassuring ourselves that we don't have to do the punishment now. 

I don't mean a case of imminent danger or cruelty -- in such cases it makes sense to step in oneself. But if we're just talking about someone who's rude or inconsiderate, or someone who breaks some social norm, then it generally does no good to speak up and try to improve that individual ourselves. Chances are it will make the situation worse for everybody around. We might be tempted to pass judgement and then attempt to render a punishment, as if we have some right to correct others. But that's actually more judgmental and shows less empathy than letting it go and dreaming that somehow the universe will take care of things later. 

In cases where someone does attempt to deal out the karma which he thinks the other deserves, I suspect it is more about the person doing the punishing than the supposedly guilty party. A lot of people seem to have stored up their anger and hate and then look for what they take to be a socially acceptable moment to pour it all out on someone. This person was inconsiderate about holding the door at the supermarket! By god I'm going to tell him what I think of him and he'll never do that again! But chances are it's the scolder who makes more people uncomfortable. 

I completely agree with you that it's bad to wish ill on others, and it's a sign of bad character to ever attempt to make another person feel bad when it's not absolutely necessary. But I think we've all seen cases where people feel justified in doing that, even though in the long run they're only making themselves feel powerful or important. 

So rolling your eyes and saying "oh well he'll get his someday" is a harmless way to persuade ourselves not to escalate, and to refrain from becoming the punisher that we might wish, at the moment, to be.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Anyway, I think people who invoke karma as their own revengeful/wishful thinking are abhorrent and probably canceling out how karma decides who should suffer or not. Like, if you ever think "Karma will get them" or "their time will come" you're not a good person anymore. Just saying.

Wanting to see bad person treated badly is natural. Put another way, I can sum up karma in three words: assholes make enemies.

In a perfect world there'd be no need for words like schadenfreude or comeuppance. Alas, the world is not perfect.

[no one]

I never claimed to be good.

If you are an asshole, and your assholeness gets you into hot water, I'd have zero issues watching you boil.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I am the agent of immediate karma.

Boru

[Silver]

I have to admit, a part of my conscience still clings to a concept where an agent of karma looks out for me and enacts revenge on my behalf toward those I personally feel have wronged me. Just my imagination, of course.

[arewethereyet]

I am the agent of immediate karma.

Boru

I thought that was Valk's job.

[zwanzig]

I have had revenge fantasies before. It does feel good, in the moment.

But my active wish for those who have wronged or hurt me is for good things to occupy them and distract them. So they'll go away and leave me alone.

Ever hear the saying "hurt people hurt people"? Any realistic revenge fantasy I have entertained, I've followed it to its conclusion of, "well shit! That'll make them even more miserable and cause me more issues!" Like, I'm not sure if any of you have been at the mercy of an abusive toxic ex who has a preoccupation with you AND time on their hands but it actually brings relief when you hear they are happy with someone new and a kid, so, have no time and no fixation on causing you trouble anymore.

If karma were simply wishing for unpleasant people in your life to vanish or not exist, then, I agree, I'll get on board with that wishing. Screw being a good person, I want to snap my fingers and make bothersome individuals just disappear in a magic way. Hel, I'll even get on board with the wish and hope that their compassion bone gets tickled some day and they just stop treating others poorly. Forget me, I don't need apologies and your regret is just you masturbating over the restrictions of linear time. We ALL can't take the moment back, Diane, now quit touching yourself and move forward, ffs. But in a more concrete way, I worry about what more suffering an unpleasant person might bring if they are made to continue to be unhappy with a lack of nurturing or good in their lives to preoccupy them.

But yeah, you're right. I agree, quibbling about thought crime is dumb. We all have that impulse with anger to wish harm on others, sometimes. I just saw a friend on Facebook reblog something about "karma will come to those who have hurt you and make them regret it" and I just had a superior moment thinking, "That's a kinda malicious thing to wish for. If I were a balancing force of the universe, I might hesitate to service you because you don't seem as nice and deserving as you think you are."

[Silver]

Processing with my imagination, I managed to kill all the conservatives in the world in my Sapience novel.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I am the agent of immediate karma.

Boru

I thought that was Valk's job.

She got it from me.

Boru