Progress...

[Cinjin]

@ Sae - you silly girl

You can tell me all day long what value IS and why I supposedly have it. Doesn't change anything in my mind.
I still say, he doesn't add anything of value to this conversation.

And by the way, sometimes the table is just in the fucking way.

[Violet]

I'm okay with you ignoring what I say about value, it only makes me more sefl-righeous

That table wasn't just another delusion, and my face hit the butter when I tripped over it.

[reverendjeremiah]

I'm okay with you ignoring what I say about value, it only makes me more sefl-righeous

That table wasn't just another delusion, and my face hit the butter when I tripped over it.

Sae..are you sure you arent an Absurdist?

[Violet]

I'm okay with you ignoring what I say about value, it only makes me more sefl-righeous

That table wasn't just another delusion, and my face hit the butter when I tripped over it.

Sae..are you sure you arent an Absurdist?

Quite. I am, however: delusional, and still sane

Or rather... I am quite capable of distinguishing that which is solid and not solid, and when in doubt: I ere on the side of caution. It is when you are not in doubt that you can be taken by surprise

And I happen to be quite faithful in the solidity of the ground beneath my feet... which is rather reckless of me I know, but it I perceive it unlikely to cave on me without warning

[Zenith]

You can't do away with all religion. It's a pipe dream. Best we can hope for is a few thousand more years of educating the masses.

How exactly would you do that? And what that education would be like?

[Cinjin]

You can't do away with all religion. It's a pipe dream. Best we can hope for is a few thousand more years of educating the masses.

How exactly would you do that? And what that education would be like?

We just keep doing what we're doing. Change nothing, save one thing ... stop teaching religion.

One human at a time. The Enlightened (as I dub them) are growing in numbers. We are estimated at 20 million worldwide.

We're making progress. Slowly, but it's coming. We can't ever change the indoctrinated ... they are at home in the dark and will always refuse to accept the obvious truth.

But every mind we can save from the disease of religion has the awesome potential to create entire families and generations of open, inquiring and powerful minds.

Everyone of us just has to keep doing what we're doing. That my friend, is real and tangible PROGRESS.

[bozo]

If we, all of us, every atheist that exists worldwide, took every opportunity to oppose the respect that organised religion feels is its due and state why the opposition, then we may have a hope.
On a personal level, I am sufficiently smug to know that all the religious are going to be bitterly disappointed when they die and that's it.

[Napoléon]

On a personal level, I am sufficiently smug to know that all the religious are going to be bitterly disappointed when they die and that's it.

Too bad they won't be able to realise that sad, sad disappointment eh?

[Zenith]

You can't do away with all religion. It's a pipe dream. Best we can hope for is a few thousand more years of educating the masses.

How exactly would you do that? And what that education would be like?

We just keep doing what we're doing. Change nothing, save one thing ... stop teaching religion.

I expected a more... specific, and more detailed explanation (like a plan or something). For instance, how exactly would you stop teaching religion? How would that education be like? you mean showing everywhere the flaws of religions, or what exactly does this "education" mean to you? And you would educate them in schools, using the TV, or how?

I hope I'm not annoying you. I'm only curios of the methods you think of.

---

On a personal level, I am sufficiently smug to know that all the religious are going to be bitterly disappointed when they die and that's it.

Fairytales will never die. Instead, they will only be replaced with other ones. If you think about the modern religions (satanist religions like the church of satan; wicca; Kabbalah; Scientology, etc.) which are also full of fairytales and are modern (based on science - some even use that word as the foundation of the institution) then it is not hard to imagine that even before the old religions die (if they would indeed die) others will already take their place, and you'll have one fairytale replaced by another - big deal.

By the way, Kabbalah does not call itself as "religion": I have once read from a site of theirs "Kabbalah is not a religion, it is a science of reality", or something like that (the funny thing is that any religion would call itself as a science of reality) - but from what I've read about them, both Kabbalah and Scientology fit very well in that category. In Kabbalah, for instance, it is taught that a man, with his mind can split the waters of a sea in two and stuff like that.

As about Scientology, read this:

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Scientology beliefs revolve around the thetan, the individualized expression of the cosmic source, or life force, named after the Greek letter theta (θ).[88][89][90] The thetan is the true identity of a person – an intrinsically good, omniscient, non-material core capable of unlimited creativity.[88][89]

In the primordial past, thetans brought the material universe into being largely for their own pleasure.[88] The universe has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that most thetans agree it exists.[89] Thetans fell from grace when they began to identify with their creation, rather than their original state of spiritual purity.[88] Eventually they lost their memory of their true nature, along with the associated spiritual and creative powers. As a result, thetans came to think of themselves as nothing but embodied beings.[89][91]

Thetans are reborn time and time again in new bodies through a process called "assumption" which is analogous to reincarnation.[88] Like Hinduism, Scientology posits a causal relationship between the experiences of earlier incarnations and one's present life, and with each rebirth, the effects of the MEST universe (MEST here stands for matter, energy, space, and time) on the thetan become stronger

---

And these are modern (i.e. newly appeared) religions! Imagine other people starting with aliens or who knows what.

Point is: I don't see a big difference between muslims who say "at the end all will be muslims", the christians who say "in the end all will be christians" and atheists who say "In the end all will be atheists". It's just great desire and fantasy to all of them (that's my strong personal opinion).

[Cinjin]

You can't do away with all religion. It's a pipe dream. Best we can hope for is a few thousand more years of educating the masses.

How exactly would you do that? And what that education would be like?

We just keep doing what we're doing. Change nothing, save one thing ... stop teaching religion.

I expected a more... specific, and more detailed explanation (like a plan or something). For instance, how exactly would you stop teaching religion? How would that education be like? you mean showing everywhere the flaws of religions, or what exactly does this "education" mean to you? And you would educate them in schools, using the TV, or how?

In my opinion there's only one way. Time. You cannot force people to betray their own beliefs no matter how ridiculous. There IS NO education program that can do that. We educate and enlighten the young minds that aren't yet corrupted. With enough time, and with enough minds - religion will simply die out.

Fairytales will never die. Instead, they will only be replaced with other ones. If you think about the modern religions (satanist religions like the church of satan; wicca; Kabbalah; Scientology, etc.) which are also full of fairytales and are modern (based on science - some even use that word as the foundation of the institution) then it is not hard to imagine that even before the old religions die (if they would indeed die) others will already take their place, and you'll have one fairytale replaced by another - big deal.

I don't believe that new religions will keep coming about. Yes, currently new religions have sprung up, but they are not taking hold the way they did 2, 3, 4000 years ago. Mankind is slowly wising up. Eventually, I truly believe that religion will die off and the miniscule amount of cults that pop their little heads up here and there will never have any lasting affect on the whole of humanity.

But we got a long way to go.