Christian Looking For Debate

[Doubting Thomas]

Yes, more and more of the bible is disproven everyday, but its only disproven because its assumed to be literal while much of the bible is metaphorical in nature. The story of creation for instance initially wasn't taught as a literal 6 days but rather 6 huge periods of time. It was a metaphor even to the earliest Jews.

This is why I have a problem with bible believers. Anything in the bible which doesn't make sense, contradicts known facts, or goes against what Christians want to believe is "metaphorical," while everything else is literal.

Homosexuality is an abomination - literal.
Sell everything you have and give the money to the poor - metaphorical.
Go to church every week - literal.
Don't eat shellfish - metaphorical.

It just lets Christians get away with cherry picking which parts of the bible to actually believe and which to ignore. Well forgive me if I consider the whole thing to be metaphorical.

[JollyForr]

Yes, more and more of the bible is disproven everyday, but its only disproven because its assumed to be literal while much of the bible is metaphorical in nature. The story of creation for instance initially wasn't taught as a literal 6 days but rather 6 huge periods of time. It was a metaphor even to the earliest Jews.

This is why I have a problem with bible believers. Anything in the bible which doesn't make sense, contradicts known facts, or goes against what Christians want to believe is "metaphorical," while everything else is literal.

Homosexuality is an abomination - literal.
Sell everything you have and give the money to the poor - metaphorical.
Go to church every week - literal.
Don't eat shellfish - metaphorical.

It just lets Christians get away with cherry picking which parts of the bible to actually believe and which to ignore. Well forgive me if I consider the whole thing to be metaphorical.

Exactly. That is why the creationists have it right. Well... they understand that the bible and reality can not co-exist, so they have to conflict with it with their own fairy tales; the thing is, why should I not think of Heaven and Hell being purely metaphorical? Why can they, not exist? The creation story is such a vital part of the bible - the biggest part - so if that's not literally true, where do you draw the line, Christians, when declaring what is literal and metaphorical?
I say, if the largest part of the bible is proven to be false, then why would one wish to listen to the rest of it? Surely, the "truth", claimed in it, should be doubted.
And poster, when discerning what is true or false, just remember that someone else of a different faith, holding their own holy book, is trying to understand theirs. Both are equal, as none can be proven; their faith is just as strong as yours; when you realize why they dismiss your god, then you should start to understand why atheists dismiss all gods.

[Minimalist]

I say, if the largest part of the bible is proven to be false, then why would one wish to listen to the rest of it?

I know a fundie on another board - his board and it is mainly he and I arguing because he gets thrown off of every board he goes on - including theist ones.

Anyway, he once opined that "if there is a single error in the bible then there is no hope for man."

I agreed that there is no hope for man and then gave him a list of errors which he promptly declared were not errors because "scientists" are out to destroy his bible!

Talk about blind!

[downbeatplumb]

I say, if the largest part of the bible is proven to be false, then why would one wish to listen to the rest of it?

I know a fundie on another board - his board and it is mainly he and I arguing because he gets thrown off of every board he goes on - including theist ones.

How about a link, that could be fun to watch.

[Doubting Thomas]

You just can't reason with people like that. They're desperately clinging to anything they have to show that the bible is still 100% true because they just can't envision their lives without it. I actually had a Christian ask me how I go through my day without worshiping God or anything else.

[downbeatplumb]

You just can't reason with people like that. They're desperately clinging to anything they have to show that the bible is still 100% true because they just can't envision their lives without it.

And that in a nut shell is the problem, they have too much invested to let it be a lie.

The idea of god is "too big to fail"

Their lives would fall apart without it.
Their social lives, their social order, their idea of the world everthig hinges on the church and the 'reality' of the faith.

[Mister Agenda]

How is it not free will? You have a choice in the matter free from God swaying you one way or the other. However, there is a consequence. There are consequences for every action we do whether the consequence is good or bad. I a parent says "clean your room or your grounded." their child still has the free will to decide to do it or not but being grounded is the consequence for choosing not to, just like not being grounded is the consequence for cleaning your room. Having free will has nothing to do with the outcome of the choice you make.

I'll extend the analogy a bit to make it more like the situation being analogized: You're a child in an orphanage with no adult caretakers, in fact, you've never seen an adult. Some of the other kids say that if you believe their story about the 'adopters', someday you'll be adopted by kind parents who will take good care of you; but if you don't, you'll be adopted by mean parents who will beat you every day. However, the other children who want you to believe them have different stories, and got them from different old books. Only one of the stories can be true, but all of them could be false, and there are no adopters revealing which story is true.

Assuming one version of the adopters really does exist and knows what is going on at the school, and really will punish anyone who does not believe the correct story; we would have to conclude that they are playing a very sick game. Even if the adopter was a super-advanced alien as intellectually advanced over the children as they are over ants.

[toro]

This is true. I looked over the entire thing and your right I don't know how to hold a rational argument nor logic. I'm trying to learn. I know what I believe but don't know how to logically defend it. Thank you everyone for the things you've said you've really challenged me. Honestly I've never been in a debate or needed to defend my beliefs in this way before. You all have given me much to think about and learn from so thanks.
Seeing as how I'm only 19 I have plenty of time to learn more. Perhaps one day I'll be able to bring a rational and logical argument here.

Holy crap. I have never seen this before.
.
.
.
Is this a new evangelical strategy or something?

If it isn't, kudos for behaving so rationally.

If it is, kudos for being so creative.

[Minimalist]

I say, if the largest part of the bible is proven to be false, then why would one wish to listen to the rest of it?

I know a fundie on another board - his board and it is mainly he and I arguing because he gets thrown off of every board he goes on - including theist ones.

How about a link, that could be fun to watch.

http://www.phpbb88.com/archiesforum/view...forum#7570

Here's a sample. He thinks the fucking flood is a literal fact.

[Cinjin]

I do kinda wanta check that link out, but I gotta tell you Min, the resident fucktards we already have here have drained me of my limited supply of fundy tolerance.

Maybe in a few days when that supply replenishes.