Anything But An Atheist. How come?

[Doubting Thomas]

I would love to live my life the way I want to and not care what the religious people think of me, but they are my customers and I don't want to go out of business.

[Ziploc Surprise]

I've dealt with shit like this for years, and I couldn't care less what the majority thinks about me. Should I really care what the uneducated, ill-mannered, and ignorant majority thinks about me? No, because I don't see any of them doing anything productive to contribute to society in the least bit, let alone their own family. When you're being hated upon by the ignorant majority, you know you're doing right. What sets them off is that you don't live by THEIR rules, if you were to do everything the little shitheads told you it would be tyranny and the world would sink into inadvertence. People shouldn't feel neglected by what extremists and the majority say, because last time I recall that Iran is a theocracy and god isn't doing a damn thing to help the innocent, let alone doing anything to provide merit for his existence. Ignorance needs provocation, and some people are addicted to perverseness and will do anything to try to get it, when you get affected by it is when they get what they want. The best measure to counteract their ignorance is to not let it affect you, instead it goes vise verse for them.

Fuck the majority, hail the minority!

This is a lovely post except for the fact that it lacks musical accompaniment. Here, let me fix this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkV4-QNxLFM

[EspressoFrog]

I hope I'm not too late by answering the original question at page 3 or 4 of an already going on debate. After being born and raised in a country where being an atheist is ok, what I've gathered from the US by living there a few years (step dad was american, so is my half-bro) is that society wants you to say you believe in God. No one says you really have to inside. It just that you are imposed a religious label of a sort to fit in. Answering "oh I'm an atheist!" may upset that agnostic in front of you who tried all of her life to hide it. They must hate the carefree way we have of saying it loud and clear. I don't think that so many people are actually that religious, it's mostly conformism and social rigidity... or am I that naive?

[MilesTailsPrower]

I've dealt with shit like this for years, and I couldn't care less what the majority thinks about me. Should I really care what the uneducated, ill-mannered, and ignorant majority thinks about me? No, because I don't see any of them doing anything productive to contribute to society in the least bit, let alone their own family. When you're being hated upon by the ignorant majority, you know you're doing right. What sets them off is that you don't live by THEIR rules, if you were to do everything the little shitheads told you it would be tyranny and the world would sink into inadvertence. People shouldn't feel neglected by what extremists and the majority say, because last time I recall that Iran is a theocracy and god isn't doing a damn thing to help the innocent, let alone doing anything to provide merit for his existence. Ignorance needs provocation, and some people are addicted to perverseness and will do anything to try to get it, when you get affected by it is when they get what they want. The best measure to counteract their ignorance is to not let it affect you, instead it goes vise verse for them.

Fuck the majority, hail the minority!

This is a lovely post except for the fact that it lacks musical accompaniment. Here, let me fix this:
(removed)

He dances like Rick Astley!

[Ziploc Surprise]

I've dealt with shit like this for years, and I couldn't care less what the majority thinks about me. Should I really care what the uneducated, ill-mannered, and ignorant majority thinks about me? No, because I don't see any of them doing anything productive to contribute to society in the least bit, let alone their own family. When you're being hated upon by the ignorant majority, you know you're doing right. What sets them off is that you don't live by THEIR rules, if you were to do everything the little shitheads told you it would be tyranny and the world would sink into inadvertence. People shouldn't feel neglected by what extremists and the majority say, because last time I recall that Iran is a theocracy and god isn't doing a damn thing to help the innocent, let alone doing anything to provide merit for his existence. Ignorance needs provocation, and some people are addicted to perverseness and will do anything to try to get it, when you get affected by it is when they get what they want. The best measure to counteract their ignorance is to not let it affect you, instead it goes vise verse for them.

Fuck the majority, hail the minority!

This is a lovely post except for the fact that it lacks musical accompaniment. Here, let me fix this:
(removed)

He dances like Rick Astley!
(removed)

Hey! In the 1980's if you could dance like that you were cool!

---

I hope I'm not too late by answering the original question at page 3 or 4 of an already going on debate. After being born and raised in a country where being an atheist is ok, what I've gathered from the US by living there a few years (step dad was american, so is my half-bro) is that society wants you to say you believe in God. No one says you really have to inside. It just that you are imposed a religious label of a sort to fit in. Answering "oh I'm an atheist!" may upset that agnostic in front of you who tried all of her life to hide it. They must hate the carefree way we have of saying it loud and clear. I don't think that so many people are actually that religious, it's mostly conformism and social rigidity... or am I that naive?

It depends on what part of the U.S. you live in. Down here in the b-eye-bull belt you're Jeeesus must run deep.

[Erinome]

It's one of the first things people ask here.

"What church ya go to?"

Prepositions at the ends of sentences and all.

[tackattack]

---

DarkMatter2525 did a fairly good job at explaining some of the reason why Atheists are so hated. I would also like to suggest that, particularly in America, Atheism is somehow associated with loosing the right to practice whatever religion you wish. It is somehow associated with loosing freedom of religion. Obviously if you look at the big picture Christians and Mormons (and I suppose Muslims if they were in a large enough majority) are the ones who try to destroy freedom of religion (except theirs) any time they get. This is not rational but we aren't dealing with rational people. We are dealing with a group of people who think that Atheists have crossed the line when they won the battle to teach evolution in classrooms and ignore intelligent design or when they booted out mandatory school prayer. Christians are the victims and the evil Atheists are winning. For whatever reason people have an odd sense of separation of church and state here in the U.S.

It also keys into their millennialistic paranoia. Even in the very moderate churches there is a belief that when the world enters the "end times" religion will be outlawed.

---

---

So then those that don't fear atheists or atheism must have something to cling to better than a collection of stories in one old book.

Umm, yes, things like reason and science provide better answers and better models for problem solving.

You still haven't shown where religious belief is opposed to or fear critical though, however you reword your cynicism.

I'm assuming you are trying to say "You still haven't shown where religious beliefs are opposed to critical thought and where religious people fear critical thought." If this is what you were trying to say then I suggest you read (or reread) the previous posts on this thread and watch the videos. It would also be useful to see how these points have been established on other threads on this forum. I could dissect the posts above and do a rebuttal via cut/paste/respond but I am not going to facilitate the need to have arguments spoon fed to you. I apologize if what I said sounds a bit harsh but if you said what It seems you said then your statement is a bit asinine. BTW I don't make it a habit to be rude or harsh but sometimes, as in this case, (if indeed what you said is what It seems you said) your lack of critical thinking is inexcusable.

---

I see I missed over responding to your post, and I apologize, allow me to address your points.
1- I’m glad we agree logic, reason and science provide better answers and better models for problem solving and determining reality.
2- I did watch the videos and I’m fairly certain I showed where emotional reactions are equally applicable to anti-theists. Congratulations, people exhibit reactions consistent with rejection, it still doesn’t validate the generalization. No one’s addressed the points so far so feel free to take a crack, I’ll even lay them out neatly for you.
a. The U.S is not the only place that’s screwed up, I don’t think anyone’s close to a utopian society yet.
b. Some Christians do exactly the opposite of what Jesus wants them to do.
c. Unwavering faith wouldn’t feel threatened by atheism. Again doesn’t apply to all Christians.
d. Ignorance is accepted because the majority are ignorant, regardless of their theological views. Address education not theological belief.
e. The Quran speaks about not questioning God, often enough. I've yet to find a verse in the Bible where God doesn't ask us to test and question what we believe. Although there are many verse supporting introspection. Rebut with mainstream Christian dogmatic belief please. If not it’s an Islamic belief not Christian.
f. Intolerance is not justified, but when exhibited, it doesn’t come from people feeling like atheists are committing a big crime. At worst case it could be an overly concerned care for their afterlife. Regardless it’s not justified.
3- Atheism is associated with loosing the freedom of religion/speech, generally. I can even use this particular community to show an example, as I hijack the thread to talk about freedom of religion.
a. If I were to close all my posts with “God Bless”, or say things like, “’l’ll be praying for you” how many instances would it take before I got a note from the moderators. Not many I promise, I know. This is an atheist community and I knew coming in and during my tenure as a moderator that it is not accepted practice. Why am I not free to express myself and my religious practices? Simple, because atheists don’t want to hear it here. I fully support that. Why then in a larger society would the minority not expect to have their opinions censured? Perhaps theists get sick of hearing “Fuck God” or “This one time in bible study..”. I’m sure all of the atheists on here have very good reason for being atheist. I’m of the mindset, you can believe what you like. I’m even willing to discuss those beliefs and mine.
b. Then you use your broad brush to paint all Abrahamic theists as opposed to atheists having their freedom of speech. Then you toss in “we aren't dealing with rational people”. I’m not even diving into those logical and intellectually repugnant fallacies. Here’s some change to add to your intellectually bankrupt posts, just so your piggy bank won’t be empty.
c. If you review your law, it’s not banning of mandatory prayer that happened, it’s banning of all prayer and bible reading. That’s not limiting another’s rights how? Wouldn’t the true null position when someone else is praying, be not to pray? I agree in the past it was forced, which is wrong in public school, but if your child goes to a religious based private school, should you really expect them to ban bible reading and prayer so your delicate ears don’t have to hear?

[Ziploc Surprise]

---

DarkMatter2525 did a fairly good job at explaining some of the reason why Atheists are so hated. I would also like to suggest that, particularly in America, Atheism is somehow associated with loosing the right to practice whatever religion you wish. It is somehow associated with loosing freedom of religion. Obviously if you look at the big picture Christians and Mormons (and I suppose Muslims if they were in a large enough majority) are the ones who try to destroy freedom of religion (except theirs) any time they get. This is not rational but we aren't dealing with rational people. We are dealing with a group of people who think that Atheists have crossed the line when they won the battle to teach evolution in classrooms and ignore intelligent design or when they booted out mandatory school prayer. Christians are the victims and the evil Atheists are winning. For whatever reason people have an odd sense of separation of church and state here in the U.S.

It also keys into their millennialistic paranoia. Even in the very moderate churches there is a belief that when the world enters the "end times" religion will be outlawed.

---

---

So then those that don't fear atheists or atheism must have something to cling to better than a collection of stories in one old book.

Umm, yes, things like reason and science provide better answers and better models for problem solving.

You still haven't shown where religious belief is opposed to or fear critical though, however you reword your cynicism.

I'm assuming you are trying to say "You still haven't shown where religious beliefs are opposed to critical thought and where religious people fear critical thought." If this is what you were trying to say then I suggest you read (or reread) the previous posts on this thread and watch the videos. It would also be useful to see how these points have been established on other threads on this forum. I could dissect the posts above and do a rebuttal via cut/paste/respond but I am not going to facilitate the need to have arguments spoon fed to you. I apologize if what I said sounds a bit harsh but if you said what It seems you said then your statement is a bit asinine. BTW I don't make it a habit to be rude or harsh but sometimes, as in this case, (if indeed what you said is what It seems you said) your lack of critical thinking is inexcusable.

---

I see I missed over responding to your post, and I apologize, allow me to address your points.
1- I’m glad we agree logic, reason and science provide better answers and better models for problem solving and determining reality.
2- I did watch the videos and I’m fairly certain I showed where emotional reactions are equally applicable to anti-theists. Congratulations, people exhibit reactions consistent with rejection, it still doesn’t validate the generalization. No one’s addressed the points so far so feel free to take a crack, I’ll even lay them out neatly for you.
a. The U.S is not the only place that’s screwed up, I don’t think anyone’s close to a utopian society yet.
b. Some Christians do exactly the opposite of what Jesus wants them to do.
c. Unwavering faith wouldn’t feel threatened by atheism. Again doesn’t apply to all Christians.
d. Ignorance is accepted because the majority are ignorant, regardless of their theological views. Address education not theological belief.
e. The Quran speaks about not questioning God, often enough. I've yet to find a verse in the Bible where God doesn't ask us to test and question what we believe. Although there are many verse supporting introspection. Rebut with mainstream Christian dogmatic belief please. If not it’s an Islamic belief not Christian.
f. Intolerance is not justified, but when exhibited, it doesn’t come from people feeling like atheists are committing a big crime. At worst case it could be an overly concerned care for their afterlife. Regardless it’s not justified.
3- Atheism is associated with loosing the freedom of religion/speech, generally. I can even use this particular community to show an example, as I hijack the thread to talk about freedom of religion.
a. If I were to close all my posts with “God Bless”, or say things like, “’l’ll be praying for you” how many instances would it take before I got a note from the moderators. Not many I promise, I know. This is an atheist community and I knew coming in and during my tenure as a moderator that it is not accepted practice. Why am I not free to express myself and my religious practices? Simple, because atheists don’t want to hear it here. I fully support that. Why then in a larger society would the minority not expect to have their opinions censured? Perhaps theists get sick of hearing “Fuck God” or “This one time in bible study..”. I’m sure all of the atheists on here have very good reason for being atheist. I’m of the mindset, you can believe what you like. I’m even willing to discuss those beliefs and mine.
b. Then you use your broad brush to paint all Abrahamic theists as opposed to atheists having their freedom of speech. Then you toss in “we aren't dealing with rational people”. I’m not even diving into those logical and intellectually repugnant fallacies. Here’s some change to add to your intellectually bankrupt posts, just so your piggy bank won’t be empty.
c. If you review your law, it’s not banning of mandatory prayer that happened, it’s banning of all prayer and bible reading. That’s not limiting another’s rights how? Wouldn’t the true null position when someone else is praying, be not to pray? I agree in the past it was forced, which is wrong in public school, but if your child goes to a religious based private school, should you really expect them to ban bible reading and prayer so your delicate ears don’t have to hear?

Oh god, I can't believe this. Do I really need to spell this out for you? Do I really need to go point by point and show you where you were wrong? Do you have any analytical ability?

1) I assume you said "You still haven't shown where religious beliefs are opposed to critical thought and where religious people fear critical thought"
a) In the video the man was skeptical, the reasons for his skepticism were listed. The believer opposed the skeptic in that she reacted emotionally instead of have a non emotional point by point civil discussion on the matter. As pointed out a belief can cause such emotions.
2) I will group the next two together "b, Some Christians do exactly the opposite of what Jesus wants them to do.
c. Unwavering faith wouldn’t feel threatened by atheism. Again doesn’t apply to all Christians." The purpose of the thread is to whine and also to theorize reasons for the negative reactions to atheists. b describes the behavior but not the cause/reason for the behavior which has been theorized to be rejection and fear. furthermore we aren't addressing those you say have "unwavering faith" because these people, if they exist and perhaps they do, would logically not be abusive because they theoretically would obey the teachings of Jesus regarding dealing with people who hurt you and they won't feel threatened because they so strongly believe that god will win in the end.
3) quote: "Ignorance is accepted because the majority are ignorant, regardless of their theological views. Address education not theological belief." Compare theological views with those of Science. Theological views are ignorant because Theology chooses unprovable stories over proven fact. If you are going to believe in, for example, the fundamentalist theology on the Genesis stories then you must ignore science and numb your critical thinking; this is ignorance.
4) You are confusing freedom of speech with the separation of church and state. While they go well together they are not the same thing. I was referring to the irrational practice of breaking the separation of church and state in order to impose Christianity on other people. The separation of church and state is the thing that protects Christianity. It is irrational to break the thing which protects you. Christians routinely do this, the practice of doing this is preached and supported in many churches. What is mind numbing is how they don't see how irrational this is. Mandatory school prayer (which I is what I was addressing) is one of those areas where the line has been crossed, intelligent design is another .
On some points Atheists (and some non atheists) have crossed the line as well and disallowed Bible reading and prayer during free time in public school (though quite a lot of schools don't enforce these rules) this practice is acknowledged by other atheists to be crossing the line and is criticized. Irrationality is not in just practice and policy it is also in unwillingness to self regulate.
b) "I agree in the past it was forced, which is wrong in public school, but if your child goes to a religious based private school, should you really expect them to ban bible reading and prayer so your delicate ears don’t have to hear?" Private school is a choice....and an expensive one at that. It is not mandatory. Public school is mandatory. Those who put their child in private school have consented to any religious education that may have come with that schools curriculum. If you don't agree with the curriculum then choose a different school or homeschool your child. Your inclusion of this last point makes no sense and does not support your argument.
5) Quote: "Why am I not free to express myself and my religious practices [here on this forum]? Simple, because atheists don’t want to hear it here. I fully support that. Why then in a larger society would the minority not expect to have their opinions censured? " You are confusing public with private domains. This forum, though it is on the internet and viewable to visitors, is technically a private domain. It is a place, like a private house, where atheists can let down their hair, so to speak and say things that are not acceptable in the public domain like the grocery store, work, etc. It is a place where things that are not socially acceptable in the public domains because they infringe upon the rights of others are acceptable because it is assumed (and rightly so) that those of like beliefs would not be offended by like beliefs. If you come here you should expect some impolite behavior. People are letting off steam. If you don't want to deal with this don't come here. In the same way, if I were to go on a Christian forum and express my disbelief, I would expect to get a lot of abuse and censure. Christian forums are their private domain where things that are not socially acceptable in the public domains because they infringe upon the rights of others are acceptable because it is assumed (and rightly so) that those of like beliefs would not be offended by like beliefs. In public domains, what is socially acceptable is different because you run the risk of being around those who might be offended at your comments or infringing on the rights of other's. In other words it is socially acceptable to let off steam and confide with others in private but it is inappropriate to do these things in public.

[Phaedra]

I'm glad I live in California. Nobody here really cares that I'm an atheist.

[tackattack]

---

Oh god, I can't believe this. Do I really need to spell this out for you? Do I really need to go point by point and show you where you were wrong? Do you have any analytical ability?

1) I assume you said "You still haven't shown where religious beliefs are opposed to critical thought and where religious people fear critical thought"
a) In the video the man was skeptical, the reasons for his skepticism were listed. The believer opposed the skeptic in that she reacted emotionally instead of have a non emotional point by point civil discussion on the matter. As pointed out a belief can cause such emotions.
2) I will group the next two together "b, Some Christians do exactly the opposite of what Jesus wants them to do.
c. Unwavering faith wouldn’t feel threatened by atheism. Again doesn’t apply to all Christians." The purpose of the thread is to whine and also to theorize reasons for the negative reactions to atheists. b describes the behavior but not the cause/reason for the behavior which has been theorized to be rejection and fear. furthermore we aren't addressing those you say have "unwavering faith" because these people, if they exist and perhaps they do, would logically not be abusive because they theoretically would obey the teachings of Jesus regarding dealing with people who hurt you and they won't feel threatened because they so strongly believe that god will win in the end.
3) quote: "Ignorance is accepted because the majority are ignorant, regardless of their theological views. Address education not theological belief." Compare theological views with those of Science. Theological views are ignorant because Theology chooses unprovable stories over proven fact. If you are going to believe in, for example, the fundamentalist theology on the Genesis stories then you must ignore science and numb your critical thinking; this is ignorance.
4) You are confusing freedom of speech with the separation of church and state. While they go well together they are not the same thing. I was referring to the irrational practice of breaking the separation of church and state in order to impose Christianity on other people. The separation of church and state is the thing that protects Christianity. It is irrational to break the thing which protects you. Christians routinely do this, the practice of doing this is preached and supported in many churches. What is mind numbing is how they don't see how irrational this is. Mandatory school prayer (which I is what I was addressing) is one of those areas where the line has been crossed, intelligent design is another .
On some points Atheists (and some non atheists) have crossed the line as well and disallowed Bible reading and prayer during free time in public school (though quite a lot of schools don't enforce these rules) this practice is acknowledged by other atheists to be crossing the line and is criticized. Irrationality is not in just practice and policy it is also in unwillingness to self regulate.
b) "I agree in the past it was forced, which is wrong in public school, but if your child goes to a religious based private school, should you really expect them to ban bible reading and prayer so your delicate ears don’t have to hear?" Private school is a choice....and an expensive one at that. It is not mandatory. Public school is mandatory. Those who put their child in private school have consented to any religious education that may have come with that schools curriculum. If you don't agree with the curriculum then choose a different school or homeschool your child. Your inclusion of this last point makes no sense and does not support your argument.
5) Quote: "Why am I not free to express myself and my religious practices [here on this forum]? Simple, because atheists don’t want to hear it here. I fully support that. Why then in a larger society would the minority not expect to have their opinions censured? " You are confusing public with private domains. This forum, though it is on the internet and viewable to visitors, is technically a private domain. It is a place, like a private house, where atheists can let down their hair, so to speak and say things that are not acceptable in the public domain like the grocery store, work, etc. It is a place where things that are not socially acceptable in the public domains because they infringe upon the rights of others are acceptable because it is assumed (and rightly so) that those of like beliefs would not be offended by like beliefs. If you come here you should expect some impolite behavior. People are letting off steam. If you don't want to deal with this don't come here. In the same way, if I were to go on a Christian forum and express my disbelief, I would expect to get a lot of abuse and censure. Christian forums are their private domain where things that are not socially acceptable in the public domains because they infringe upon the rights of others are acceptable because it is assumed (and rightly so) that those of like beliefs would not be offended by like beliefs. In public domains, what is socially acceptable is different because you run the risk of being around those who might be offended at your comments or infringing on the rights of other's. In other words it is socially acceptable to let off steam and confide with others in private but it is inappropriate to do these things in public.

---

1a)so belief causes emotions. I agree, lack of belief doesn't? atheists aren't emotional then?
2b&c) So we agree then that it's logically not sound that those with unwavering faith would be abusive.
2e)You still haven't addressed yet. I still hold not questioning your beliefs is a Muslim practice, not a Christian one.
3) Theology and Science are not similar in respect to the properties of purpose and scope therefore it is a false analogy. I do agree with your point that literal interpretation fundamentalist theology does deny scientific evidence, especially in young Earth Creationism. That would apply to young Earth fundamental Christians though, and not to all, or even mainstrem Christianity. Ignoring presented, validated evidence is ignorant we can agree on.
4) I agree that breaking the separation of church and state in order to impose Christianity on other people is as irrational as preventing Religious expression. Mandatory school prayer (which is not something I experienced in public school) is as bad as not being allowed to say grace at the lunch table. Mandatory school prayer in a private religiously based school, is within the rights of the school and should be expected.
5)Let me give an example to illustrate my point. Let's suppose for this argument (not true in reality) that I am an avid racist. I spout hate speech all day within the confines of my private home. It has private access so there is no one to be offended. Let's say I post up a huge sign with hate speech on my front lawn on a main thoroughfare. Aside for putting my family at risk, it's my private property, but there is public access to it. People are offended in the community and attempt a petition to censure my free speech. Regardless of the legality/success, an attempt at censure would be made because there was an offender and offendee (public access to private domain).
6)You made the point that "Atheism is somehow associated with loosing the right to practice whatever religion you wish". If atheists truly didn't want to censure public speech or public displays of religious practice, why are there groups protesting the creationist museum. Why petition to ban prayer prior at town council meetings? Wouldn't the null position be to just not pray or let the ignorant believe what they like?
Freedom of Speech is grounded in utilitarianism, not in an inalienable right, as rights are granted by the society they govern. If you want to not pray over your meal in a restaurant, fine I have never put any pressure on anyone to do anything they were opposed to. I've never seen anyone forced to pray, even in Church. I think what it really boils down to is that some atheist feel offended at religious expression because they feel the internal compulsion to conform. I'm sorry, but with Public access your freedom to express, or lack thereof, should be allowed, unless it damages society. I think a lot of the feelings of victimization or being offended stems from atheist by default assuming theists are wrong/ don't like being subjected to expressions of religious belief. Perhaps we'd make progress if you started by showing an instance of mandatory prayer, as have no experience with it.

As far as the ad hominems and broad generalities go, feel free to "whine" all you like as this is an atheist forum, I'll stick to addressing the points.