The Incredible Lightness Of Being An Atheist

[little_monkey]

First, as long as it does not affect me, i don't see why the hell i would give a crap what someone else believes.

If you look at the Christian right trying to get creationism/ID to be taught in a science class, or portraying that global warming is a hoax, or getting prayers into class, or their fight against abortions, gay rights, and many other issues, it is no longer a question that theists are keeping their beliefs to themselves, but that they are tryng to impose it to all of society. Perhaps you are indifferent to that, but I'm not. It affects me.

Second, some people only make it through the day thanks to their belief in God.
Yeah you can call them weak, but some people have nothing real to hold on to.

But they do more than that as I indicated above.

Thirdly, we are all irrational: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority is an example of that. So judging someone else for being MORE irrational is simply hypocritical.

We all have feelings and prone to be irrational. But to place one's own beliefs on an irrational basis is not going to be very productive.

Finally, this article seems to claim that the religious are blind fools who can't know how liberating it is to be an atheist, and that is a HUGE generalization full of condescension and ignorance of the millions of believers who ONLY use religious for a moral support, never bothering to read the Bible or spend even a second worrying about any divine rules, and are as rational as you and me their whole lives.

Hitler and Stalin were also rational (Godwin's law, you win, ). Atheists and Theists can both be rational. However, it is not just a question of being rational, but what is your premise you start from. And the article makes that distinction.

Implying, as the article does, that every religious person would look up to the sky and think "forgive me Jesus" before downloading a movie illegally is just laughably wrong.

It was one of many things the author quotes as being free from. And why shouldn't he celebrate his freedom from religion?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I don't know if you've ever been religious, but I can certainly attest to the vast difference in mental "lightness" between being a christian and being an atheist.

Please try to refrain from patronising me with your facile ad hominems sonny. (IE; you disagree,therefore you just don't understand)



My perception is unchanged.


PS I was brought up devout Catholic.I left the church in 1967,age 20. Took me another 20 years to finally admit I'm an atheist.

[Rwandrall]

If you look at the Christian right trying to get creationism/ID to be taught in a science class, or portraying that global warming is a hoax, or getting prayers into class, or their fight against abortions, gay rights, and many other issues, it is no longer a question that theists are keeping their beliefs to themselves, but that they are tryng to impose it to all of society. Perhaps you are indifferent to that, but I'm not. It affects me.

...this affects me, so i oppose it, which is precisely what you quoted. I think it was clear. Also, i lived in a few countries, although not the us, and in none of these countries did i ever have a single person forcing religious ideas on me. If someone believes in God but doesn't force anyone else to, then i don't have a problem with them. Because it's their freedom.

But they do more than that as I indicated above.

Not the majority. Or even a meaningful minority. So generalizing ALL christians as proselytizing aggressive zealots is just plain wrong. I'm tired of people on each side of EVERY argument spending their time seeing the other side only by their worst stereotypes.

We all have feelings and prone to be irrational. But to place one's own beliefs on an irrational basis is not going to be very productive.

Yet we all do it. So judging others for doing the same thing that we do is hypocritical.

Hitler and Stalin were also rational (Godwin's law, you win, ). Atheists and Theists can both be rational. However, it is not just a question of being rational, but what is your premise you start from. And the article makes that distinction.

No they were not rational. Racism is irrational, for example. And Stalin was, by many accounts, batshit insane.

It was one of many things the author quotes as being free from. And why shouldn't he celebrate his freedom from religion?

Because his article implies that this is what religion consists of. Which is a misrepresentation.

[little_monkey]

...this affects me, so i oppose it, which is precisely what you quoted. I think it was clear. Also, i lived in a few countries, although not the us, and in none of these countries did i ever have a single person forcing religious ideas on me. If someone believes in God but doesn't force anyone else to, then i don't have a problem with them. Because it's their freedom.

If you'd ever live in the USA, particularly in the bible belt, your tune would drastically change.

[Rwandrall]

If you'd ever live in the USA, particularly in the bible belt, your tune would drastically change.

Yeah. That's about, what, less than 10% of the Christian population ? And in this 10%, how many actually push their agenda in schools ? 20% ? And based on this tiny minority you make your opinion of ALL christians. Anecdotal evidence is not convincing evidence, and you can't judge a population by its worst members. It's like saying Muslims are dangerous because some of them are extremists: it's just nonsense.

Also there is no way you could know what my "tune" would be depending on where i was, so that was a bit condescending. I think there's a name for that logical fallacy, can't remember it now though.

[little_monkey]

If you'd ever live in the USA, particularly in the bible belt, your tune would drastically change.

Yeah. That's about, what, less than 10% of the Christian population ? And in this 10%, how many actually push their agenda in schools ? 20% ? And based on this tiny minority you make your opinion of ALL christians. Anecdotal evidence is not convincing evidence, and you can't judge a population by its worst members. It's like saying Muslims are dangerous because some of them are extremists: it's just nonsense.

Also there is no way you could know what my "tune" would be depending on where i was, so that was a bit condescending. I think there's a name for that logical fallacy, can't remember it now though.

It doesn't matter if that's 10% or 20%, if you live in area that 99% are christians, and most of them are obnoxious. You happen to live in a country that seems to be tolerable, so you are totally clueless as to what it is to live in closet, fearing that if anyone could out you, your quality of life would take a plunge for the worse. You can philosophize all you want with your arrogant attitude in your ivory tower, but keep that to yourself until you are faced with that kind of life experience.

[Rwandrall]

It doesn't matter if that's 10% or 20%, if you live in area that 99% are christians, and most of them are obnoxious. You happen to live in a country that seems to be tolerable, so you are totally clueless as to what it is to live in closet, fearing that if anyone could out you, your quality of life would take a plunge for the worse. You can philosophize all you want with your arrogant attitude in your ivory tower, but keep that to yourself until you are faced with that kind of life experience.

I don't doubt that it's gotta suck, and i have suffered from outing myself as an atheist (not nearly as much as those in the Bible Belt would though, from what i've heard) but it's no reason to generalize that behavior to all christians, because it is, again, subjective anecdotal evidence.

Again, i'm tired of both sides of the argument only seeing the other side by its worst stereotypes, it's is just so insane and leads to nothing but confrontation and ego-stroking ("THESE people are assholes, this makes me BETTER", or "reality show watcher syndrome")

[little_monkey]

It doesn't matter if that's 10% or 20%, if you live in area that 99% are christians, and most of them are obnoxious. You happen to live in a country that seems to be tolerable, so you are totally clueless as to what it is to live in closet, fearing that if anyone could out you, your quality of life would take a plunge for the worse. You can philosophize all you want with your arrogant attitude in your ivory tower, but keep that to yourself until you are faced with that kind of life experience.

I don't doubt that it's gotta suck, and i have suffered from outing myself as an atheist (not nearly as much as those in the Bible Belt would though, from what i've heard) but it's no reason to generalize that behavior to all christians, because it is, again, subjective anecdotal evidence.

Again, i'm tired of both sides of the argument only seeing the other side by its worst stereotypes, it's is just so insane and leads to nothing but confrontation and ego-stroking ("THESE people are assholes, this makes me BETTER", or "reality show watcher syndrome")

From your POV, one could argue that they were good nazis, and therefore one shouldn't generalize that all nazis were bad.

Sorry, but one must look at the root cause, which is the set of beliefs from which these people are acting. And Christianity is a set of beliefs that is not supported by evidence. It is full of superstitions, misconceptions, and distortions. It is used to enslave people to a doctrine. And its aims is to be looked upon as the only truth. As far as I'm concerned, its practitioners, whether they are fundies or the ones just paying lip service, are to be treated with suspicion.

And you can substitute the word "Islam" for Christianity in the above, and I would come to the same conclusion.

But all you can see is that atheists are beating their chest, thinking they are better, when in reality, there is a real danger out there but you are too blind to see it.

[The Grand Nudger]

How about someone like myself Rwandall, with a view that the most saintly and decent of christians is, at a very fundamental level, a bigoted piece of shit that gives consent or respect to concepts like ethnic cleansing, genocide, apocalyptic annihilation, scapegoating and thought crimes? That's the thing, I don't need the worst examples of any religion to come to my point of view, I just take their text, and their faith in their text at their word. Maybe they don't actually believe or feel all warm and fuzzy about any of that shit, if so, I'd sure as hell like for them to speak up and be counted. Otherwise I'm pretty certain that any actual apocalypse is going to find it's triggerman from within their ranks. Life denying fuckers. They'd rather see this place and everyone in it that disagrees with them burn than consider that they may be wholly incorrect.

[Kree]

Please try to refrain from patronising me with your facile ad hominems sonny. (IE; you disagree,therefore you just don't understand)

Please try to refrain from missing the point.

All I was saying is that I had no way to know what your circumstances were, and as such, no way to tell whether or not you'd experienced the transition from theism to atheism. I was simply trying to convey the fact that I've certainly noticed a difference, in case you had never been a theist in the past and lacked a necessary point of reference.

I don't care that you disagree with me, I was simply trying to share my own point of view, not start an argument or patronise you.