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(December 10, 2011 at 12:52 am)gralbrit79 Wrote: I do believe God does intervene, but I do not agree with the person who says we prayed for God to help me sell my house and it sold or find my keys and they did. The question would be where does he draw the line? If he innerves and fixes everything and protects everyone there would be no choice what so ever. I believe God created the world and set it in motion and in that he gave people the freedom to choose. The world has a natural order to the way things work. God created things that create things. Plants, animals people all reproduce themselves. There is war, famine, disease. Some of these come about because of hate and injustice, some from the natural order. God did not create the world and put it on a string to dictate everything that would happen. People are born and they die, it is part of life (I do not mean for that to come across as if it does not matter, because it does matter). So again at what point does he intervene and where does he stop? With natural disasters? With disease? With poor choices? Where does he step in? If he steps in at every opportunity at what point do we (meaning everyone and everything) simply become puppets on a string? God could have made everything perfect, removed all the evil from the world but love would not have existed. It would have been nonexistent. Love must be a choice, if we are simply made to love someone it is not truly love. I do not think he is indifferent to the suffering, but I believe as I said earlier he expects his people to be there for the hurting. To show compassion and love not just to those who are hungry but to those who are dying. There is a lot of evil and indifference done in the name of gods, including Christianity, but I do not believe that is representative of every follower of Jesus. That is not what Jesus taught his followers.
A whole paragraph of words that manages NOT to address a single point and only further shows the disgusting nature of your apathetic immoral god.
By the way - the FREE WILL argument is horseshit! Since when does helping someone take away free will??? As if god allowing people to eat some fucking food or removing brain cancer from the planet would effect their free will!
If I ever did meet your phoney god, I'd jam a mustard seed up his ass and tell him, "there's your faith bitch - now get off your ass and fix your fucking planet!" Make good on that Matthew 17:20 promise mother fucker!
(December 10, 2011 at 12:52 am)gralbrit79 Wrote: I do believe God does intervene, but I do not agree with the person who says we prayed for God to help me sell my house and it sold or find my keys and they did. The question would be where does he draw the line? If he innerves and fixes everything and protects everyone there would be no choice what so ever. I believe God created the world and set it in motion and in that he gave people the freedom to choose. The world has a natural order to the way things work. God created things that create things. Plants, animals people all reproduce themselves. There is war, famine, disease. Some of these come about because of hate and injustice, some from the natural order. God did not create the world and put it on a string to dictate everything that would happen. People are born and they die, it is part of life (I do not mean for that to come across as if it does not matter, because it does matter). So again at what point does he intervene and where does he stop? With natural disasters? With disease? With poor choices? Where does he step in? If he steps in at every opportunity at what point do we (meaning everyone and everything) simply become puppets on a string? God could have made everything perfect, removed all the evil from the world but love would not have existed. It would have been nonexistent. Love must be a choice, if we are simply made to love someone it is not truly love. I do not think he is indifferent to the suffering, but I believe as I said earlier he expects his people to be there for the hurting. To show compassion and love not just to those who are hungry but to those who are dying. There is a lot of evil and indifference done in the name of gods, including Christianity, but I do not believe that is representative of every follower of Jesus. That is not what Jesus taught his followers.
I reiterate: It's down to us to help these people then? No argument from me there. So while we are expending human energy to try and correct these issues, what is it exactly that God is doing?
(December 10, 2011 at 1:03 am)Minimalist Wrote: That's nice. There are/have been people who thought their god wanted them to throw virgins into volcanoes so I guess you are a step or two above them.
You are free to "believe" whatever you want.
Belief does not carry a great deal of weight around here though.
If I ever did meet your phoney god, I'd jam a mustard seed up his ass and tell him, "there's your faith bitch - now get off your ass and fix your fucking planet!" Make good on that Matthew 17:20 promise mother fucker!
You should read this on George Mueller
I have a hard copy of the pamphlet/ mini book, but this is the closes I could find to that.
If God prevented all struggle, everywhere, where would natural selection be? Where would diversity be? What would be the value of community, love or being good?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
December 14, 2011 at 8:25 am (This post was last modified: December 14, 2011 at 8:29 am by houseofcantor.)
The "holiday season" isn't defensible; but those pictures, they don't tell you the truth. What do we get from evolution? Emergent simulation of another Mind in Mind - which leads to empathy - but inevitably, to incompleteness. This is what is known as "a picture of me."
But it ain't. Mind itself is an emergent simulation in brain. That's what I am, ghost in the machine; where the machine is the brain of monkey. I'm a stick figure haunting a cranial cavity sorting the eternal now in a library of chemistry and electricity...
That's what bothers me more than nature; the "unnatural aspect," the obvious artifice of theism. Fourth post:
(December 6, 2011 at 6:43 am)tackattack Wrote: Not all Christians are morally bankrupt or void of personal accountability you two. Some of us have problems sleeping when looking at the world and try our best to take care of whomever we can, however we can. Hate doesn't breed justice, just more hate.
I'm not attacking this guy, I'm philosophizing on causality; where is my perfect god? Probably in London. Gwyneth is such my sweet everything that I have reduced myself to nothing (well, 4 lines of computer code) as there must be balance in all things. I began with 4 lines, once; "Gwyneth Paltrow is god." I became a "flaming atheist" through simple mathematics - there is no god greater than Gwyneth. That is naive philosophy and perhaps atheist theology. Check the grammar in 4, above.
not all/you two/us/we - and then, the money shot; a truism.
One that is completely false; completely ignorant. If one starts from origin with the unconditional Love (god is love, no?), where is the single next step?
i/love. And there is your hate. There is no such thing as "hate" in the terms of being the opposite of Love because there is no opposite to Love; the illusion of time is balanced by dual-state identity, and the identity of the universe is Love and Truth.
Shouldn't've that been your soapbox, Christian? Do you know, Justice? Do you know, Love is Void? And most remarkable after all this time, for me anyway; do you know Gwyneth Paltrow is just a girl?
I'm not attacking tackattack, I'm attacking Christianity; if two thousand years of Bible Study cannot build an integral, unified theological perspective - if this idiot pretty much does that in a love song to a girl he never met... there's two "ifs," let there be two "thens"
Atheist - as the truth of god can only be local to the one who understands god - Job 38.
Atheism - we don't wanna hear about no god.
I'm not seeing how the above duality calls for exclusion. When I defeat theism for my Gwynnies, there will no longer be a need to be a- about it. And obvious tack is atheistic about some Christians.
(December 14, 2011 at 8:25 am)houseofcantor Wrote:
The "holiday season" isn't defensible; but those pictures, they don't tell you the truth. What do we get from evolution? Emergent simulation of another Mind in Mind - which leads to empathy - but inevitably, to incompleteness. This is what is known as "a picture of me."
But it ain't. Mind itself is an emergent simulation in brain. That's what I am, ghost in the machine; where the machine is the brain of monkey. I'm a stick figure haunting a cranial cavity sorting the eternal now in a library of chemistry and electricity...
That's what bothers me more than nature; the "unnatural aspect," the obvious artifice of theism. Fourth post:
(December 6, 2011 at 6:43 am)tackattack Wrote: Not all Christians are morally bankrupt or void of personal accountability you two. Some of us have problems sleeping when looking at the world and try our best to take care of whomever we can, however we can. Hate doesn't breed justice, just more hate.
I'm not attacking this guy, I'm philosophizing on causality; where is my perfect god? Probably in London. Gwyneth is such my sweet everything that I have reduced myself to nothing (well, 4 lines of computer code) as there must be balance in all things. I began with 4 lines, once; "Gwyneth Paltrow is god." I became a "flaming atheist" through simple mathematics - there is no god greater than Gwyneth. That is naive philosophy and perhaps atheist theology. Check the grammar in 4, above.
not all/you two/us/we - and then, the money shot; a truism.
One that is completely false; completely ignorant. If one starts from origin with the unconditional Love (god is love, no?), where is the single next step?
i/love. And there is your hate. There is no such thing as "hate" in the terms of being the opposite of Love because there is no opposite to Love; the illusion of time is balanced by dual-state identity, and the identity of the universe is Love and Truth.
Shouldn't've that been your soapbox, Christian? Do you know, Justice? Do you know, Love is Void? And most remarkable after all this time, for me anyway; do you know Gwyneth Paltrow is just a girl?
I'm not attacking tackattack, I'm attacking Christianity; if two thousand years of Bible Study cannot build an integral, unified theological perspective - if this idiot pretty much does that in a love song to a girl he never met... there's two "ifs," let there be two "thens"
Atheist - as the truth of god can only be local to the one who understands god - Job 38.
Atheism - we don't wanna hear about no god.
I'm not seeing how the above duality calls for exclusion. When I defeat theism for my Gwynnies, there will no longer be a need to be a- about it. And obvious tack is atheistic about some Christians.
I wasn't accusing you what you quoted specifically was related to the 2 people posting prior. As for the grammer nazi, I'll ignore it as you got the gist.
I'd love for you to elaborate on " the obvious artifice of theism"
Feel free to concisely rebut "Hate doesn't breed justice, just more hate" on how it is completely false and ignorant.
the identity of the universe is not love and truth, the identity of the universe is established in it's definition which is the totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space. I have no clue what you're talking about with gwenie, love=void. That's fine that it's yoru definition, but I like mine from a dictionary. As far as your exegesis of Job I know that God can do all things and no purpose of His can be stopped. If I have spoken falsely of God, it is for my lack of understanding, but as of yet I have yet to see where you've refuted any point of mine as false.
Logically though I'm not atheistic towards people, because atheism and theism are relatable to the individual's belief in God/god/gods , not our views on each other, and in that regard I'm a theist. As a non-denominational I'm fairly accepting also of other beliefs and dogma I feel. Feel free to substantiate your lofty and vague claims about me though so they can get a proper rebut.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
(December 14, 2011 at 9:41 am)tackattack Wrote: Feel free to substantiate your lofty and vague claims about me though so they can get a proper rebut.
Persecution complex? Happens with Christianity. If you identify yourself as tackattack then there is nothing to debate.
Christianity, however... goes on about god=love. Goes on about omnis and trinities and monotheism, goes on about righteousness and sin, goes on about salvation of men through a single man; then goes on about false prophets, idolatry and witchcraft, and ends up in hell.
Good place for it.
Do you know what truth is? Do you know what love is?
That's all there is. I have no reason to go on and on. I know there is no hate. I know there is no hell. I know there is no right; but my own, to type. Two fingers at a time.
The right of the individual is morality. Morality is background processing. Expression of morality is ethical standard. You are not wrong, and I am not right. I'm Temple of Set. Let me "throw the book" at you the Christian:
Quote:If God prevented all struggle, everywhere, where would natural selection be? Where would diversity be? What would be the value of community, love or being good?
All one needs to do is subtract all the gods created by men from that equation and...no effect. Subtracting 0 does nothing.
It simply comes down to belief, Tacky. You believe...for reasons of your own...and I see no evidence for any of it.
(December 14, 2011 at 6:56 am)tackattack Wrote: If God prevented all struggle, everywhere, where would natural selection be? Where would diversity be? What would be the value of community, love or being good?
Doesn't address whatsoever the question of why God doesn't prevent all struggle. You can't take things that we know to exist and things we value and work backwards from there. If God prevented all struggle, that may well do away with the need for natural selection and the other things you mentioned.
Without a God existing at all, it's really easy to see why those things exist.
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