Why do Atheists defend Islam?

[Catholic_Lady]

I do[color=#333333] think the Islam ideology, as it stands right now, has one major issue - and that is that it can be easily taken in a way that gets many people do many heinous things.

You are aware, how many shades and colors Islam actually has? There is no islamic ideology, there are only more or less literal interpretations being at odds with each other. Right now, most of the more violent movements are Sunni, but that doesn't mean that Sunni is inherently more violent. Sunni, again, breaks down into many aspects, depending on region and culture.

That's the problem with blankets. They just don't fit.

Right. There I am being politically incorrect again. So, Islam does not need a reform. Everything is just fine and dandy as it is, no calls to change needed. 

[CapnAwesome]

I do[color=#333333] think the Islam ideology, as it stands right now, has one major issue - and that is that it can be easily taken in a way that gets many people do many heinous things.

You are aware, how many shades and colors Islam actually has? There is no islamic ideology, there are only more or less literal interpretations being at odds with each other. Right now, most of the more violent movements are Sunni, but that doesn't mean that Sunni is inherently more violent. Sunni, again, breaks down into many aspects, depending on region and culture.

That's the problem with blankets. They just don't fit.

People aren't making blanket statements. You just insert them everywhere. If every time you wanted to talk about how Islam and it's various sects relate to violence in modern times, you had to go through a big cock-waving 'look at how much I know' history lesson, you would get nowhere. I don't think you really want to have that conversation though, which is why your format of conversation is always the same:

It starts out 'You need to learn about history, you are making blanket statements, a list of different Muslim countries, a statement that they are different from one another, a few barely relevant historical facts that don't tie into what's being discussed, repetition of 'you need to learn about history' "

If you don't understand, from history, that Islam influences and has influenced the political structures of various middle eastern countries, or if you have no reply to that, then you wasted your money on your degree.

[abaris]

There I am being politically incorrect again.

No, just uninformed, since - going out on a limb here - you probably wouldn't agree with being thrown under the same blanket as Evangelicals, Southern Baptist or Amish. Just to name a few. On the other hand, you feel comfortable to do exactly this with another religion. Without knowing the first thing about it, other than what the media and maybe your priest tells you. Although, catholic priests usually don't stoop to this level of ignorance.

It's got nothing to do with PC, it's got everything to do with blanket statements.

[abaris]

If you don't understand, from history, that Islam influences and has influenced the political structures of various middle eastern countries, or if you have no reply to that, then you wasted your money on your degree.

So how much does it influence these countries? Examples, please. Going from country to country. From southeastern Europe to Africa and Asia. The Middle East is the minority and only part of the problem.

The reason why I'm always pointing this out is not you or everyone else going on about Islam, as if there was one Islam, sharing the same universal culture, vices and dogma everywhere. It's the politicians making decisions and influencing people to believe in a big conspiracy to change some dime. Thereby playing into the hands of the extremists, since the more hatred and suspicion there is against every muslim, the easier it is to recruit even more people to radicalism.

Again, a political problem rather than a religious one. It's only the grunts being fed religion to make them toe the line of sacrificing their lives. Which gets that much easier if they are shunned, and in the case of some European countries or the Palestinian territories, live in suburban Ghettos without any hopes of moving up the ladder at some point in their existence.

[Catholic_Lady]

I stand by everything I wrote. Though I will finish by saying that at the end of the day, we're all on the same side here. We're all against Isis and against terrorism of any kind and that's what should matter most. I've said before that in times like these we should unite against a common enemy rather than let them be the cause of discord and division among us. That's easier said than done though and I shouldn't have let it get as far as it did. I like you, Abaris. Even though we'll just have to disagree on this, I hope I didn't say anything that offended you personally.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

*shrug* I don't defend Islam, never have. I defend Muslims who are not part of the problem, just as I defend Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Jews and Hindus who are not part of the problem.

Most of the people are fine, it's the religions that are fucked.

Boru

[Minimalist]

I get it. Christians have killed many people too, in the past.

No.  You don't get it.  Islam is at precisely the same point that xtianity was in the 16th-17th centuries.  Try not to feel so smug and superior because people rose up and smacked you jesus freaks down when they'd had enough of its bullshit.  That really is what muslims have to do with their own imams.

As Bill Maher has commented:  "We have religious leaders too....we just don't listen to them."

[abaris]

We're all against Isis and against terrorism of any kind and that's what should matter most. I've said before that in times like these we should unite against a common enemy rather than let them be the cause of discord and division among us.

Yeah, but in the brains instead of brawns sense. Alienating the moderates, as it happens right now, is exactly the wrong way. We share indeed a common enemy, and we share it with the majority of muslims - for different reasons. But just remember, that the majority of people, Isil kills and displaces, are muslims not agreeing with their stone age ideology.

[Catholic_Lady]

We're all against Isis and against terrorism of any kind and that's what should matter most. I've said before that in times like these we should unite against a common enemy rather than let them be the cause of discord and division among us.

Yeah, but in the brains instead of brawns sense. Alienating the moderates, as it happens right now, is exactly the wrong way. We share indeed a common enemy, and we share it with the majority of muslims - for different reasons. But just remember, that the majority of people, Isil kills and displaces, are muslims not agreeing with their stone age ideology.

I know.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

That's probably the reason right there: Islam is an ideology, yet most people don't know that, they just see you being critical and they conclude that you must be a hater, a trouble maker, the problem not the solution.

Most people have no clue about the doctrine and history of Islam, and the barbaric example of Mohammed. It's beyond their comprehension that a religion could offer paradise for being killed/martyred while fighting to defend/expand the religion. All they see is you being "hateful".

And that gets to another deep reason why people defend Islam, because if we admit that Islam is not a religion of peace, then we have to admit that Muslim immigration is a catastrophic mistake, which brings the whole edifice of Western sanity crashing down. It reveals that the Western world, at its heart, is completely insane, and there's nobody in the driver's seat. Rather, we're driving headlong over a cliff. And that's just too crazy for people to contemplate.

That's part of the reason that Obama refuses to call terrorists Islamic, because it will logically put the spotlight on Muslim immigration. But Obama identifies with brown people and Muslims, and doesn't want to stop Muslim immigration, no matter what the cost to national security.

Islam is ridiculous. Mohamed was not a prophet. There is probably no Allah. Terrorism is unjustified.

Find me an atheist here who will disagree with what I just said. Yet, I am one of the atheists that you think 'defend Islam'. Because you can't tell the difference between 'defending Islam' and 'defending innocent Muslims'.

Islam is derived from Christianity and you can go up to a person on the street in America and read them verses out of a Bible disguised as the Koran and have them nodding their heads in agreement over how barbaric Islam is.

Islam is not a religion of peace. The only peaceful religions I can think of are the Jains, Quakers, and Unitarians...though I may have to add Ahmadi Muslims to that list, if I'm going to break it down that finely. But they all claim to be about love and peace.

Muslim immigration has been a resounding success. They integrate well, pay taxes, and in general are proud, patriotic Americans whose sons and daughters offer their lives in the service of our country.

What's insane is thinking there is a scenario where Muslims, even if they wanted to, can have enough power in America to override our Constitution. They're less than 3% of our population. Add 100,000 and they're still less than 3% of our population. And if we ever feel like we have too many Muslims, we have a country next door with all the Catholics we could want.

There's no problem with calling the terrorists 'radical Islamists', because that is actually an accurate term for them. Calling terrorists Islamic is like calling parents who beat their children to death trying to follow Biblical child-rearing advice Christian. It implies that they are following their religion correctly. That's not a good message to send.

Oh, get off your high horse, Mr. Defender Of The Innocent!

Nobody is arresting Muslims who don't support terror by exercising their 1st Amendment right to criticize Islam, and it deserves that more than any other world religion on account of worldwide terror being practiced in its name. The fact that not every Muslim is involved in Islamic terror is greatly overshadowed by their silence on terror, on genital mutilation, on oppressive misogyny, on bigamy, on the most barbaric excuses for justice since the 7th Century, the murder of "apostates", and fatwas to intimidate...CRITICISM OF ISLAM!!

While leaders of every other world religion jump to disassociate themselves wherever such atrocious horrors are known, Muslims implicate themselves through their apathy, regardless of how they practice their religion. They do this because they really don't respect the rights of people with ideas which are different from theirs, so rather than respond to distance themselves from the Paris attacks they do what they wish to, giving the world the finger. They know they can get away with it while stupid Western journalists enable them!