Women's clothes?

[Edwardo Piet]

What a dick.

A massive one.

Not massive just reasonably above aver-

Oops nevermind.

[account_inactive]

A massive one.

Not massive just reasonably above aver-

Oops nevermind.

[Jackalope]

It has nothing to do with objectifying women, however it has everything to do with how sexuality works in men.
Men are attracted to how a women looks, or rather her physicality. That is how the sexuality of men work. It's an evolutionarly scientifically proven fact.
If you think that men should be shamed for how their sexuality works then you are undoubtedly a sexist in my eyes.

Is it? That's odd, because that's not my experience.

[Heat]

And they're all for bullshit reasons.

I dress however I want, for whatever reason I want to, and nobody gives a single fuck what you think about it.

Ok thats fine by me. I dont care how someone dresses until they hypocritically claim victim when someone points out the obvious. 

Honestly, dress however you like, as long as you let others think whatever they want. It's when people start getting those two confused, and thinking they can both dress however they want IE: something drawing attention,  and then expect and rage over the fact it ends up drawing attention, that it becomes a problem.

[Losty]

I dress however I want, for whatever reason I want to, and nobody gives a single fuck what you think about it.

Ok thats fine by me. I dont care how someone dresses until they hypocritically claim victim when someone points out the obvious. 

Honestly, dress however you like, as long as you let others think whatever they want. It's when people start getting those two confused, and thinking they can both dress however they want IE: something drawing attention,  and then expect and rage over the fact it ends up drawing attention, that it becomes a problem.

I don't care what most people think about how I dress. I care what certain people think and I will occasionally dress a specific way for a specific person. If, however, someone were to walk up to me and tell me what they think of how I dress even though I haven't asked them, I might tell them to fuck off. That being said, no one has ever commented to me their opinion of my style choices irl in an offensive manner. The only time someone made me really uncomfortable I was wearing sweatpants and a tshirt. Creepy guys will be creepy regardless of how women dress.

[Heat]

Ok thats fine by me. I dont care how someone dresses until they hypocritically claim victim when someone points out the obvious. 

Honestly, dress however you like, as long as you let others think whatever they want. It's when people start getting those two confused, and thinking they can both dress however they want IE: something drawing attention,  and then expect and rage over the fact it ends up drawing attention, that it becomes a problem.

I don't care what most people think about how I dress. I care what certain people think and I will occasionally dress a specific way for a specific person. If, however, someone were to walk up to me and tell me what they think of how I dress even though I haven't asked them, I might tell them to fuck off. That being said, no one has ever commented to me their opinion of my style choices irl in an offensive manner. The only time someone made me really uncomfortable I was wearing sweatpants and a tshirt. Creepy guys will be creepy regardless of how women dress.

I agree with you. 

My main disagreement is with MTL and C/L who think that even when a woman is dressing in almost no clothes, anyone they deem 'staring too long' from their own imaginated reality in which they suddenly know that persons exact thoughts,  is harrassing them by doing so. This can be seen with teenage girls as well, the idea that they can wear whatever the sam hell they want and be exempt from people they didnt initially desire to view them differently,  viewing them differently.

If someone initiates scolding someone for wearing a specific article of clothing screw them, but if the woman initiates asking why someone is silently giving extra attention to their clothing, the man is not to blame for questioning the motives of wearing it if not wanting attention.

And this doesnt apply to all cases but its certainly silly to think a woman wearing purposely skimpy outfits is not doing so for attention, however am i going to actively go question if thats the case?  No. 

I have a lot of opinions in the minority. Mainly im simply against the hypocrisy and expectations most of societies women have that no matter what they do they deserve to be respected equally. Treatment is different from respect. All women should be treated equally, just like all people in general.  However,  respect? Sorry if you deem it disrespectful, but if you wear attention seeking clothes you do not deserve the respect of making people feel guilty for looking at you. 

[Edwardo Piet]

^_______________^

[Losty]

I just don't agree with this idea of "attention seeking clothes". And how it only seems to apply to women. And how gawking like a creepy perv is said to be something men are incapable of refraining from. To me both are highly offensive. Sure some people dress certain ways for attention, but IMO most people don't, and I think it's best to assume that someone is not if you don't know for certain. And men, well I know a lot of men. Intelligent human beings, most of them. They're all perfectly capable of going through the day acting like normal people. They don't gawk at women and if they did and they sensed she didn't like it, they would stop.

I don't think anyone (regardless of gender) should get enraged with someone staring at them and/or how their clothes. I do think that if you're staring at a person and they ask you to stop, you should and you can.

[Longhorn]

I've been rudely stared at while wearing jeans and a fucking hoodie, since I barely ever wear anything else anyway. Don't give me that shit

[MTL]

Yep. 

Some men seem to think the world revolves around them. Truth is a lot of times women dress the way they do because it makes them feel good and confident, or they're big into fashion and that is how they express themselves. Believe it or not, it isn't all about you all the time.  

A woman dressing sexy is not an invitation (or an excuse) for a man to act like a disrespectful creep.

They want to express themselves, yet excuse me for acknowledging that?

Who the fuck are these women who have 0 self awareness of the world around them and the people in it?

Why would you want to feel confident in dressing minimalistic, if not for the purpose of flaunting your body? Yet HOW DARE ANYONE LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE CLEARLY DOING.

These arguments are simply and utterly nonsensical.

Let me clarify something.

Let's say a woman uses clothing to express herself.
Let's say she dresses very sexy and goes out with her girlfriends to a club.

All kinds of guys hit on her.

Did she dress up for the guys?

She may have dressed up for the RIGHT guy, yes,
but I assure you, that doesn't mean she owes sex to every man she attracts,
nor does it mean that it's "okay" for every man to gape at her;

(and yes....as long as those guys are ONLY gaping, and not harassing or touching,
it's technically okay for them to gape...
...but, as CL has pointed out, it is still rude,
and it won't get you anywhere, besides which).

And, in some cases, she may be dressing to attract the guys, yes
...but it may not be because she wants to attract a mate at that moment, at all.

She may LIKE knowing she looks attractive to a lot of men
....that still doesn't mean that it is socially acceptable for men to gape at her.

In yet another case, some of the women you see out in groups together
are ACTUALLY dressing up FOR EACH OTHER....not for men, at all.
They may all be happily married, but it's a treat to have the ritual of pampering themselves
and they like to see each other looking their best, too.

(It's the same reason that I dress up a little for Christmas dinner with my family.
There's no potential mate, there...no one to impress;
dressing up is part of the celebration;
it makes the entire occasion that much more pleasant).


And then there are those of us that ARE, literally, dressing up because we enjoy the process, for ourselves:

I have observed many times, to my girlfriends and sisters:

I find that dressing up is the best part of an evening of nightclubbing.
Once I get to the noisy club, I'm kinda bored.

I enjoy the creative process.
It's what attracted me to fashion design in the first place.

Certainly fashion arose out of a long-developed legacy of dressing up to impress a potential mate;

but let's put it this way:


The instinct has gone evolved so far, for so long,
that in many cases has become its own reason for being:
preening for the sake of preening.

Otherwise, you wouldn't have so many gay male fashion designers creating women's clothing.


A gay male fashion designer doesn't wear women's clothing to attract another man for himself,
and he isn't interested in whether or not each of his female customers attacts a man, or not, either.

He loves the design process.

Another example would be how the breeding, in dogs, to have certain traits, can go into overdrive
and overtake the original natural appetite it served,

IE:  Border Collies are bred to have great focus, to not be distracted from a task.

As a side effect of all that breeding to serve that one purpose,
many Border Collies have the problem of being Obsessive-Compulsive.

Their obsessiveness has taken on a life of its own,
no longer serving the original purpose.

Same with fashion.

That's why when a woman dresses up, we say it is not always to be attractive to others,
and she may just be doing it, literally, for herself.