The Problem with Christians

[AJW333]

So all those scientists who write journal articles claiming to be making scientific observations are either lying or deluded?

Again, idiot or misrepresenting on purpose - make your pick.

Neither.

You said, "There are never any scientific evaluations at any time."

I have no idea how you can justify this claim. Scientists make evaluations all the time.

[abaris]

You said, "There are never any scientific evaluations at any time."

Of the supernatural, yes, which you could easily see when quoting what I replied to your post. So, misrepresenting or idiot with next to no reading skills and a very short memory span?

The whole context for the feeble minded or dishonest ones.

That doesn't prove the absence of a supernatural phenomenon. It simply means that there was no scientific evaluation of it at the time.

There are never any scientific evaluations at any time. What you don't get or don't want to get is a simple rule: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Otherwise they're just myths, rumour, hearsay or whatever.

So, concrete question: Provide your extraordinary evidence for the supernatural. And no, someone's second cousin taking a shit on the lawn of someone who just talked about the supernatural, doesn't count.

[AJW333]

This would seem to be the case with abiogenesis. There is no natural explanation of the phenomenon.

How do you know there is no natural explanation (including ones we haven't thought of yet)?

I've not seen an explanation for it. I imagine I would have if one existed.

In terms of speculating on explanations we haven't thought of, isn't that like saying, "what if there is a proof of God's existence that we haven't thought of?"

---

The nation of Israel was destroyed in 586 BC and regathered 70 years later. It was destroyed a second time by the Romans 2000 years ago and the Jews were dispersed to the four corners of the earth. For all this time, the nation of Israel ceased to exist. Then in 1948 God fulfilled his promise to regather the Jews and to restore their nation.

So, you don't even consider the possibility of retcon?

I said something about gobbledigock not being sufficient. I also seem to have asked you about our time.

Retcon? Don't know what you mean.

Do you think the passage is gobbledigock? It thought it was pretty straightforward. Two dispersions of the nation of Israel and two regatherings. Both historically documented.

Concerning prophesies in our time. Israel is now a nation, in our time.

[Angrboda]

That passage is gobbledycock. (I just wanted an excuse to say cock.)

[AJW333]

Isaiah11:11 In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea. 12  He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

The nation of Israel was destroyed in 586 BC and regathered 70 years later. It was destroyed a second time by the Romans 2000 years ago and the Jews were dispersed to the four corners of the earth. For all this time, the nation of Israel ceased to exist. Then in 1948 God fulfilled his promise to regather the Jews and to restore their nation.

Self-Fulfilling prophecy.

I imagine that would be a stock response to any and all fulfilled prophecy, no matter how unlikely. So how did a tiny remnant of post WWII Jews manage to recreate their own nation when there wasn't one?  

And how about the failed Prophecy Jesus made in Matthew 16:27-28
"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom"

Totally didn't happen, and all of those people are long dead.  Their children are dead, their grandchildren are dead, their great grandchildren are dead.  Their great greandchildren's great grandchildren's great grandchildren are dead.

Bible scholars interpret Jesus' words here as a reference to the transfiguration where Peter James and John saw his glorious appearance.

[Angrboda]

How do you know there is no natural explanation (including ones we haven't thought of yet)?

I've not seen an explanation for it. I imagine I would have if one existed.

In terms of speculating on explanations we haven't thought of, isn't that like saying, "what if there is a proof of God's existence that we haven't thought of?"

The point is that by declaring that there are no natural explanations, "in principle," you're claiming to rule out ALL possible explanations, including ones we may know nothing about at this time. That's a claim you can't possibly support, as you don't know what remains to be discovered. What if next year they discovered a process which could explain the beginning of life. Would you at that time say, "Well it's not supernatural now, but it was supernatural last year"? How does that make any sense that something can be declared supernatural, AND THEN a natural explanation for it could be found? It doesn't make sense, and it points to the fact that you are making an argument from ignorance, that if we don't understand something today, then it cannot be understood EVER.

[Foxaèr]

That passage is gobbledycock.  (I just wanted an excuse to say cock.)

Poppycock would have worked just as well, and it is a real word.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

An example of this is that we generally accept that 4.5 billion years ago there was nothing living on earth, just dirt rocks and water. Since we know of no natural process that creates life from non-life, there must be some process at work above and beyond the natural, ie the supernatural. 

AJ.

We generally accept, based on scientific data that 4.5 billion years ago there was nothing living on earth, just dirt rocks and water. We don't know of any natural process that creates life from non-life, but there are hypothetical possibilities which are still being investigated - until we have that answer, based on scientific data, we won't know any answer, and it's best to just leave it at that. Our ignorance does not imply an even more ignorant answer, such as magic, the supernatural, or god to fill the gaps in our understanding.

Saying you don't know when you don't have the answer is not only perfectly OK, it's the only honest answer when ignorance is the only fact.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

This would seem to be the case with abiogenesis. There is no natural explanation of the phenomenon.

As they said in The X Files, "The truth is out there" - and some day you'll get to eat crow when it's discovered and proven.

[The Grand Nudger]

I imagine that would be a stock response to any and all fulfilled prophecy, no matter how unlikely. So how did a tiny remnant of post WWII Jews manage to recreate their own nation when there wasn't one?  

....might have had something to do with the british, and then the isrealis......but I'm sure that's all bullshit, it was "god" amiright?