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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 12:44 pm
A little further light reading:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_slav1.htm
(There's a section at the bottom that talks about the opposition to slavery by the early church, based on the fact that many believers were themselves slaves, yet treated equally by Christian brothers, including rising to levels of prominence within the church. You might especially be interested in the writings of Saint Gregory, Bishop of Nyssa, from the early church, who was himself a slave, on the immorality of the practice. I tell you this to make it clear that I am not attacking Christians or Christianity, nor placing the blame for slavery upon its practicioners; I attack only the reliance upon Your Holy Scripture as a claimed Ultimate Moral Guide™, when it is clearly the work of flawed, myopic, and even immoral men.)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 12:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2016 at 12:45 pm by IATIA.)
(March 11, 2016 at 12:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: So apparently what Kitan is saying is that Atheists never make illogical arguments ...
No, Kitan is saying that theists do not make logical arguments. That statement is true, because any argument in favor of the existence of god continually and consistently includes an unproven premise.
1. Any statement you would like to make.
2. Must be a factual or universally accepted statement in reference to the primary premise.
3. Same ...
Etc. ...
THEN therefore 1.
Any god can be logically disproven, but no god can be logically proven.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:00 pm
(March 11, 2016 at 5:10 am)Huggy74 Wrote: See? The feudal comparison is more appropriate.
What do you think would happen if an American slave holder armed 318 slaves? Once again, no comparison.
Oh, and I almost forgot. As you yourself pointed out, the Hebrew word translated as slave has a broader context than the English word... and most of the Bible translations translate that as "trained men", or "servants of the household", not necessarily indicating the type of slaves which we're discussing, here.
However, I will show you that it's not unheard of to arm slaves in order to pursue someone.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:19 pm
(March 11, 2016 at 12:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Read the OP.
And I quote:
(February 27, 2016 at 3:31 am)Kitan Wrote: They ignore logic. Not only that, they ignore it to the detriment of reason so that they can create these silly counter arguments that are not even logical.
Oh, forgive me, their arguments are logical to them and their perpetually damaging delusion.
Christians only create, as they did their imaginary friend since the beginning of time, apologetics because they know they are on the loosing end, and they think they can somehow cling to something meaningful if more idiots follow their brand of idiocy.
*emphasis mine*
So apparently what Kitan is saying is that Atheists never make illogical arguments, so the deck is stacked in the favor of Atheists according to the OP.
However, if both theists AND atheists are BOTH guilty of making illogical arguments, That makes the OP nonsense.
Oh, could you not act like a fucking moron for once? Kitan's statements were about christians, they said nothing at all about atheists. You don't just get to leap to some imaginary contra-positive that was never even alluded to just because it's the only snag you can find that'll make you correct; you don't get to make shit up and then pin it on someone else.
A claim about how christians behave does not insinuate anything about how atheists behave, any more than a statement about my favorite color being blue means I hate red. Even if Kitan's statements did contain even a single reference to atheism- which they don't- there's a huge range of qualities between "behaves more rationally than christians," and "exclusively makes logical arguments." You have no justification at all, even assuming your completely manufactured crap is correct, for leaping to the furthest extreme. It's just nonsense, as usual.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:20 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2016 at 1:29 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 11, 2016 at 12:44 pm)IATIA Wrote: (March 11, 2016 at 12:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: So apparently what Kitan is saying is that Atheists never make illogical arguments ...
No, Kitan is saying that theists do not make logical arguments. That statement is true, because any argument in favor of the existence of god continually and consistently includes an unproven premise.
1. Any statement you would like to make.
2. Must be a factual or universally accepted statement in reference to the primary premise.
3. Same ...
Etc. ...
THEN therefore 1.
Any god can be logically disproven, but no god can be logically proven.
How the universe began cant be logically proven or disproven either, yet it's here.
at around 40:40 of this video you'll how Lawrence Krauss, explains how the universe began from nothing.
Quote:Why is there something rather than nothing? The answer is there had to be, if you have nothing in quantum mechanics you'll always get something.
(March 11, 2016 at 1:19 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Oh, could you not act like a fucking moron for once? Kitan's statements were about christians, they said nothing at all about atheists. You don't just get to leap to some imaginary contra-positive that was never even alluded to just because it's the only snag you can find that'll make you correct; you don't get to make shit up and then pin it on someone else.
THAT'S MY FREAKING POINT.
One group criticizing another group for a certain behavior, when it can be proven that their group exhibits the same behavior is called hypocrisy.
Hypocrites tend to purposely leave their behavior out of the equation...
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:26 pm
(March 11, 2016 at 1:20 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Quote:Why is there something rather than nothing? The answer is there had to be, if you have nothing in quantum mechanics you'll always get something.
What does he mean by "nothing"?
You know that he uses that word in a provocative sense, right? it's not supposed to be the true philosophical "nothing". 
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:29 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2016 at 1:29 pm by robvalue.)
Huggy, I have to tell you, you are obsessed with hypocrisy. It appears your immediate reaction to any argument is to try and find some way of making out the author is a hypocrite, rather than addressing the actual argument.
It's a trend I've noticed over my time here. Just for your information. It's formally called the tu quoque fallacy.
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:31 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2016 at 1:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-and less formally known as "all gods got left to harp on".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:32 pm
(March 11, 2016 at 1:29 pm)robvalue Wrote: Huggy, I have to tell you, you are obsessed with hypocrisy. It appears your immediate reaction to any argument is to try and find some way of making out the author is a hypocrite, rather than addressing the actual argument.
It's a trend I've noticed over my time here. Just for your information. It's formally called the tu quoque fallacy.
All this time I thought it was called the 'pot can't call the kettle black' fallacy...
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RE: The Problem with Christians
March 11, 2016 at 1:34 pm
I think that's a bit hypocritical.
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