Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?

[Nonpareil]

To other people God show whatever they believe before their NDE and to anyone who did not believe in anything God show the nirvana in different ways so God always act in the interest of the person regardless his or her beliefs.

So, according to you, God will always show the recipient of a near-death experience vision something that they would be inclined to see anyway.

So in what way, then, is this vision supposed to be differentiable from a hallucination?

Our brain act as the owner of such a brain desire.
The brain is a vehicle not the driver so when the brain is dead the consciousness dissociate from the dead brain and is more free than ever.
Why the driver would stay in a dead vehicle Mess?

Consciousness is brain activity. Asserting that the consciousness "dissociates" from the brain upon death is equivalent to asserting that a video game dissociates from the computer when it is turned off. The concept is nonsensical.

Stories usually do not turn a non believer into a strong believer.
Stories are quickly forgotten while NDEs are not.  

The world is full of credulous idiots.

One person becoming a believer means exactly nothing when it comes to evaluating whether or not there is a rational justification for holding that belief. Unless the newly-minted believer can justify their new position, it doesn't matter how confident they are.

As far as saying that his NDE was an hallucination that is not possible considering that his experience go hand in hand with all other NDEs

This does not establish that it was impossible that his near-death experience was not a hallucination. In fact, it strengthens the case.

beside an hallucination wouldn't be remember in such a clear, sharp and vivid way as he did remembered.

Flatly wrong.

I get the very strong impression that you do not actually know how memory works, and have just chosen to believe that near-death experiences are always recalled with one hundred percent clarity, always and forever, because it falls in line with what you want to believe about them, rather than because it is true.

Because it is not. While it is true that people tend to remember the experience of having a near-death experience, the actual memories of the experience itself are no more magically immune to natural memory decay than anything else. In fact, they are actually more vulnerable to it, because highly emotional memories tend to be some of those most vulnerable to later warping. And this is assuming that even the initial recall was accurate, when there is no reason to believe that it was.

Several people who experienced an NDE ask God what is the best religion.
God said..........the best religion is the one who help you in your spiritual progress.
These people had a religious background so God let their free will to follow what they like most.

At the same time most people who had an NDE without having a religious background were given
the understanding that spirituality is the best of the best.
In any case God always make sure that people understand that loving each other is the most important thing of all regardless whether you follow religions or not.
The old saying goes..........THE WAY TO HEAVEN ARE INFINITE.

Citation needed.

[Fake Messiah]

I never said that I do reject holy books so please try not to interpret me wrong.
I did say that God never did write the holy books and that doesn't mean that holy books are wrong.
I also did say that nobody knows who write holy books.

You don't reject holy books but you don't acknowledge their authenticity so how could they be right if somebody just made them up? Now you didn't say that they were made up but you also said they weren't written by god which means that humans made them up. But to you they are not made up except parts that you don't like which are made up...

I also say that priests and other people give different interpretation to the same story and in most cases is the wrong interpretation.

And Howard Storm is exactly that kind of priest. Or do you agree with his interpretations of the Bible?

I have been a student of the late P.R.Sarkar for many many years and I can assure you that his teachings
are better than solid gold so I wouldn't say that what I follow is based on nothing.

Well Rick this does sound like some sort of Hippy religion. You say that you don't make up your religion so you let P.R.Sarkar do it. What prompt you to dab into mysticism?

In any case God always make sure that people understand that loving each other is the most important thing of all regardless whether you follow religions or not.
The old saying goes..........THE WAY TO HEAVEN ARE INFINITE.

Not so if you look at stuff like religious bigotry and bloodshed. What you're talking about is perennial philosophy or in other words unity of all religions, but that is idealism and not realism. Do you know how offensive this sounds to people of other religions then yours? If let's say a pope said that many Buddhists, Hindus, and Jews are actually "anonymous Christians" he would be in lots of trouble.
Even conservative Catholics would see this theory as a violation of their longstanding conviction that "outside the church there is no salvation."

This perennial philosophy is wishful thinking and it has not made the world a safer place. In fact, this naive theological groupthink has made the world more dangerous by blinding us to the clashes of religions that threaten us worldwide.
I mean I don't deny that lots of religions rivals are converging when it comes to ethics. For instance the so called "Golden Rule" can be found not only in the Christian Bible and the Jewish Talmud but also in Confucian and Hindu books. No religion tells you it is okay to have sex with your mother or to murder your brother. But that's not enough because no religion sees ethics alone as its reason for being.
There is much more to religion and where they diverge sharply is on doctrine, ritual, mythology, experience, and law. These differences may not matter to you and mystics of religion that you listen to, but they matter to ordinary religious people. Religious differences do not just matter to religious practitioners. They have real effects in the real world. People refuse to marry this Muslim or that Hindu because of them. And in some cases religious differences move adherents to fight and to kill.
God is not one. Faith in the unity of religions is just that--faith (perhaps even a kind of fundamentalism).

I did say the an NDE is remembered in a clear, sharp and vivid way after years and years just as the first day it happened while an hallucination is easily forgotten after a short time.

I get what you say and it does not sound convincing. There are many books on alien abductions where spaceship and beings are describe much more lavish then Storm's so called NDE experience.

[Little Rik]

[quote='Little Rik' pid='1517564' dateline='1488283179']
To other people God show whatever they believe before their NDE and to anyone who did not believe in anything God show the nirvana in different ways so God always act in the interest of the person regardless his or her beliefs.

So, according to you, God will always show the recipient of a near-death experience vision something that they would be inclined to see anyway.

So in what way, then, is this vision supposed to be differentiable from a hallucination?
[/quote]


God doesn't have a body.
He (she) is pure consciousness.
He will appear to you in a way that make it easy for you to understand.
That is not an hallucination Parei.
If you talk to an illiterate person you got to use a language that he-she can understand.
If you also go to court you got to use a different language that the judge in familiar with.
That is not creating hallucination.
That is just to create a situation in which people are familiar with in order to explain your message.  

Our brain act as the owner of such a brain desire.
The brain is a vehicle not the driver so when the brain is dead the consciousness dissociate from the dead brain and is more free than ever.
Why the driver would stay in a dead vehicle Mess?

Consciousness is brain activity. Asserting that the consciousness "dissociates" from the brain upon death is equivalent to asserting that a video game dissociates from the computer when it is turned off. The concept is nonsensical.

Wrong again mate.  
Consciousness is stuck inside a brain as a driver is stuck inside a vehicle until the vehicle goes.
After that there is no more reason why the driver should be stuck inside a rotten vehicle.

A video game is not an entity.
It is the entity that decide to operate video and computer alike.
You got the wrong example.  

Stories usually do not turn a non believer into a strong believer.
Stories are quickly forgotten while NDEs are not.  

The world is full of credulous idiots.

One person becoming a believer means exactly nothing when it comes to evaluating whether or not there is a rational justification for holding that belief. Unless the newly-minted believer can justify their new position, it doesn't matter how confident they are.

After seeing Mister God you got to be very very confident about your new belief.  

As far as saying that his NDE was an hallucination that is not possible considering that his experience go hand in hand with all other NDEs

This does not establish that it was impossible that his near-death experience was not a hallucination. In fact, it strengthens the case.

Sorry mate.
All you got to do is to ask a medical expert whether a brain that is not supplied with blood and oxygen is able to create hallucinations or not.
Believe LR son.
It can't that is why NDEs are not hallucinations.  

beside an hallucination wouldn't be remember in such a clear, sharp and vivid way as he did remembered.

Flatly wrong.

I get the very strong impression that you do not actually know how memory works, and have just chosen to believe that near-death experiences are always recalled with one hundred percent clarity, always and forever, because it falls in line with what you want to believe about them, rather than because it is true.

Because it is not. While it is true that people tend to remember the experience of having a near-death experience, the actual memories of the experience itself are no more magically immune to natural memory decay than anything else. In fact, they are actually more vulnerable to it, because highly emotional memories tend to be some of those most vulnerable to later warping. And this is assuming that even the initial recall was accurate, when there is no reason to believe that it was.

Look Mister.
You can have all the best hallucinations that you like but they pop up only when the brain is functioning
not when is dead and the NDEs experiences only come when the brain is 100% off.

Several people who experienced an NDE ask God what is the best religion.
God said..........the best religion is the one who help you in your spiritual progress.
These people had a religious background so God let their free will to follow what they like most.

At the same time most people who had an NDE without having a religious background were given
the understanding that spirituality is the best of the best.
In any case God always make sure that people understand that loving each other is the most important thing of all regardless whether you follow religions or not.
The old saying goes..........THE WAY TO HEAVEN ARE INFINITE.

Citation needed.

If you will surf through this site you will find a myriad of citations.  


http://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

---

[quote='Little Rik' pid='1518174' dateline='1488369816']
I never said that I do reject holy books so please try not to interpret me wrong.
I did say that God never did write the holy books and that doesn't mean that holy books are wrong.
I also did say that nobody knows who write holy books.

You don't reject holy books but you don't acknowledge their authenticity so how could they be right if somebody just made them up? Now you didn't say that they were made up but you also said they weren't written by god which means that humans made them up. But to you they are not made up except parts that you don't like which are made up...

Slow down with your imagination mate.
Holy books could have been written by some spiritual being.
The problem however is that these books have been written and rewritten again and again and every time
something may have been changed in order to go along with the new writer interpretation or just the new writer interest that would go along with his-her way of life which may be different from the original writer.
We do not know Mess that is why there is not point in speculate in that regard.

I also say that priests and other people give different interpretation to the same story and in most cases is the wrong interpretation.

And Howard Storm is exactly that kind of priest. Or do you agree with his interpretations of the Bible?

Anyone who experience God can not possible go around talking rubbish.
If Storm find some or a lot of truth in the holy book I am sure that that particular version of the holy book
means a lot.
I am not a big reader of holy books.
I prefer to engage in practicing rather that read but even in reading you can get out a lot of knowledge.

I have been a student of the late P.R.Sarkar for many many years and I can assure you that his teachings
are better than solid gold so I wouldn't say that what I follow is based on nothing.

Well Rick this does sound like some sort of Hippy religion. You say that you don't make up your religion so you let P.R.Sarkar do it. What prompt you to dab into mysticism?

Sarkar teach spirituality not religion.
Once you understand what is the difference between religion and spirituality we can keep on talking about
the issue.  

In any case God always make sure that people understand that loving each other is the most important thing of all regardless whether you follow religions or not.
The old saying goes..........THE WAY TO HEAVEN ARE INFINITE.

Not so if you look at stuff like religious bigotry and bloodshed. What you're talking about is perennial philosophy or in other words unity of all religions, but that is idealism and not realism. Do you know how offensive this sounds to people of other religions then yours? If let's say a pope said that many Buddhists, Hindus, and Jews are actually "anonymous Christians" he would be in lots of trouble.
Even conservative Catholics would see this theory as a violation of their longstanding conviction that "outside the church there is no salvation."

This perennial philosophy is wishful thinking and it has not made the world a safer place. In fact, this naive theological groupthink has made the world more dangerous by blinding us to the clashes of religions that threaten us worldwide.
I mean I don't deny that lots of religions rivals are converging when it comes to ethics. For instance the so called "Golden Rule" can be found not only in the Christian Bible and the Jewish Talmud but also in Confucian and Hindu books. No religion tells you it is okay to have sex with your mother or to murder your brother. But that's not enough because no religion sees ethics alone as its reason for being.
There is much more to religion and where they diverge sharply is on doctrine, ritual, mythology, experience, and law. These differences may not matter to you and mystics of religion that you listen to, but they matter to ordinary religious people. Religious differences do not just matter to religious practitioners. They have real effects in the real world. People refuse to marry this Muslim or that Hindu because of them. And in some cases religious differences move adherents to fight and to kill.
God is not one. Faith in the unity of religions is just that--faith (perhaps even a kind of fundamentalism).

The ways to Rome are infinite.
Religions are not the best considering that they spring out from spirituality.
The original is the best.
Priests since the old times always try to become intermediaries between God and the masses in order
to control people minds in their favor but as far as a religious person act in good faith with sincerity and doesn't follow fanatics then he-she can not go much wrong.

I did say the an NDE is remembered in a clear, sharp and vivid way after years and years just as the first day it happened while an hallucination is easily forgotten after a short time.

I get what you say and it does not sound convincing. There are many books on alien abductions where spaceship and beings are describe much more lavish then Storm's so called NDE experience.

Again.
As far as the brain is dead then the NDE can not possibly be an hallucination.  

[Nonpareil]

God doesn't have a body.
He (she) is pure consciousness.
He will appear to you in a way that make it easy for you to understand.
That is not an hallucination Parei.

Wonderful. Then you should be able to explain how it is different from a hallucination, and produce evidence that it is so.

Consciousness is stuck inside a brain as a driver is stuck inside a vehicle until the vehicle goes.

Asserting something does not make it true.

After seeing Mister God you got to be very very confident about your new belief.  

Which still does not make your belief evidence.

All you got to do is to ask a medical expert whether a brain that is not supplied with blood and oxygen is able to create hallucinations or not.

So... yes, then. Because lack of oxygen is one of the most firmly established causes of hallucinations out there.

not when is dead and the NDEs experiences only come when the brain is 100% off.

No, they don't. That is why they are called near-death experiences and not literally came back to life experiences. If actual brain death had occurred, revival would not happen.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that you have not actually done any research whatsoever on any of the relevant topics. You are flatly and incontrovertibly wrong in every detail.

[GUBU]

To other people God show whatever they believe before their NDE and to anyone who did not believe in anything God show the nirvana in different ways so God always act in the interest of the person regardless his or her beliefs.

So, according to you, God will always show the recipient of a near-death experience vision something that they would be inclined to see anyway.

So in what way, then, is this vision supposed to be differentiable from a hallucination?

Our brain act as the owner of such a brain desire.
The brain is a vehicle not the driver so when the brain is dead the consciousness dissociate from the dead brain and is more free than ever.
Why the driver would stay in a dead vehicle Mess?

Consciousness is brain activity. Asserting that the consciousness "dissociates" from the brain upon death is equivalent to asserting that a video game dissociates from the computer when it is turned off. The concept is nonsensical.

Stories usually do not turn a non believer into a strong believer.
Stories are quickly forgotten while NDEs are not.  

The world is full of credulous idiots.

One person becoming a believer means exactly nothing when it comes to evaluating whether or not there is a rational justification for holding that belief. Unless the newly-minted believer can justify their new position, it doesn't matter how confident they are.

As far as saying that his NDE was an hallucination that is not possible considering that his experience go hand in hand with all other NDEs

This does not establish that it was impossible that his near-death experience was not a hallucination. In fact, it strengthens the case.

beside an hallucination wouldn't be remember in such a clear, sharp and vivid way as he did remembered.

Flatly wrong.

I get the very strong impression that you do not actually know how memory works, and have just chosen to believe that near-death experiences are always recalled with one hundred percent clarity, always and forever, because it falls in line with what you want to believe about them, rather than because it is true.

Because it is not. While it is true that people tend to remember the experience of having a near-death experience, the actual memories of the experience itself are no more magically immune to natural memory decay than anything else. In fact, they are actually more vulnerable to it, because highly emotional memories tend to be some of those most vulnerable to later warping. And this is assuming that even the initial recall was accurate, when there is no reason to believe that it was.

Several people who experienced an NDE ask God what is the best religion.
God said..........the best religion is the one who help you in your spiritual progress.
These people had a religious background so God let their free will to follow what they like most.

At the same time most people who had an NDE without having a religious background were given
the understanding that spirituality is the best of the best.
In any case God always make sure that people understand that loving each other is the most important thing of all regardless whether you follow religions or not.
The old saying goes..........THE WAY TO HEAVEN ARE INFINITE.

Citation needed.

There should be a new clause to the agreement section when new users sign up "I do solemnly swear to never reply to a post by Little Rik". It saves a lot of trouble in the long run.

[Little Rik]

God doesn't have a body.
He (she) is pure consciousness.
He will appear to you in a way that make it easy for you to understand.
That is not an hallucination Parei.

Wonderful. Then you should be able to explain how it is different from a hallucination, and produce evidence that it is so.

Before to go any further you should understand what is the difference between UNIdimension and MULTIdimension.
Human beings are UNIdimensional creatures.
They can only think at one thing at the time.
Be in one place at the time and not be able to assume a different image from what they are.
For God is different.
Those who experienced an NDE understood very well what I am talking about.
For an atheist all this is impossible to understand.

Consciousness is stuck inside a brain as a driver is stuck inside a vehicle until the vehicle goes.

Asserting something does not make it true.

True, but again the best thing to do in these cases are to follow logic and logic say that it doesn't make sense to die when your vehicle die.  

After seeing Mister God you got to be very very confident about your new belief.  

Which still does not make your belief evidence.

Tons of evidence mate.
NDEs are real because a dead brain can not create hallucinations and because NDEs are real also God is real.    

All you got to do is to ask a medical expert whether a brain that is not supplied with blood and oxygen is able to create hallucinations or not.

So... yes, then. Because lack of oxygen is one of the most firmly established causes of hallucinations out there.

Wrong again Parei.  
Lack of oxygen vary.
While a small amount of oxygen produce a small amount of problems a big amount of oxygen produce a big amount of problems.
If we go further a total lack of oxygen knock down the brain 100%.
You never thought of that Parei, did you?  

not when is dead and the NDEs experiences only come when the brain is 100% off.

No, they don't. That is why they are called near-death experiences and not literally came back to life experiences. If actual brain death had occurred, revival would not happen.

Garbage mate.
Physical science hasn't got there yet.
It still doesn't know much about consciousness.
Atheists are really stuck inside a corral of dogmas by thinking that an NDE experiencer never died.
As far as the death was declared by a qualify doctor then the death did really occurred.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that you have not actually done any research whatsoever on any of the relevant topics. You are flatly and incontrovertibly wrong in every detail.

Look Parei do me a favor.
Go to your doctor and ask if there is any life in a person which his-her heart stop function for several minutes and in many cases for much longer and the brain doesn't get any supply of blood and oxygen for all that time.
After that come back here to talk to LR.  

[Nonpareil]

Wonderful. Then you should be able to explain how it is different from a hallucination, and produce evidence that it is so.

Before to go any further you should understand what is the difference between UNIdimension and MULTIdimension.

No. I just need you to produce some evidence.

True, but again the best thing to do in these cases are to follow logic and logic say that it doesn't make sense to die when your vehicle die.

False analogy.

Literally all evidence we have shows that consciousness is not merely within the brain, but produced by it.

NDEs are real because a dead brain can not create hallucinations

People having near-death experiences are not dead.

and because NDEs are real also God is real.

Circular and does not follow. Even if God existed, near-death experiences could still be hallucinations.

Wrong again Parei.  

No, Rik. Not wrong. Lack of oxygen causes hallucinations.

No, they don't. That is why they are called near-death experiences and not literally came back to life experiences. If actual brain death had occurred, revival would not happen.

As far as the death was declared by a qualify doctor then the death did really occurred.

Which did not happen. Hence the whole resuscitation bit.

[Cyberman]

Fear not, little rikky idiot. Evidence may be forthcoming: Scientists get the green light to resurrect the dead with stem cells

Several years too late for some of us, but if true and successful we can just ask, n'est-ce pas?

[HairyCyclist]

Anyone who experience God can not possible go around talking rubbish.

Oh yes they can.

[Little Rik]

Fear not, little rikky idiot. Evidence may be forthcoming: Scientists get the green light to resurrect the dead with stem cells

Several years too late for some of us, but if true and successful we can just ask, n'est-ce pas?

I just wonder who is the imbecile   that think that LR said that science in the future will not be able to bring dead people back to life (under certain circumstances like a recent death)?
As far as I know LR only said that doctors know whether the bloke is alive or dead.  

---

Anyone who experience God can not possible go around talking rubbish.

Oh yes they can.

Most religious people are motivated by their faith in God so they wrongly think that they experience God and in this case I agree with you but this thread is all about NDEs and in the NDEs God is real so this is a real experience not a fake one and when the experience is real you can't possibly go wrong.