Abortion is morally wrong

[rexbeccarox]

Blackout, you can decide in your head all day long what's ethical, but when it comes to the act of actually going out and getting an abortion, the pregnant woman is the only one who should have the right to decide. I stand by that.

In a society where we've somehow decided that abortion should be up for a vote, I also hold the unpopular view that men shouldn't be allowed to vote on it. Would you want women voting on the legality of circumcision? I think circumcision is genital mutilation and that it's a practice that should be stopped immediately, but I don't think I should get a vote in the matter.

[FatAndFaithless]

Blackout, you can decide in your head all day long what's ethical, but when it comes to the act of actually going out and getting an abortion, the pregnant woman is the only one who should have the right to decide. I stand by that.

In a society where we've somehow decided that abortion should be up for a vote, I also hold the unpopular view that men shouldn't be allowed to vote on it. Would you want women voting on the legality of circumcision? I think circumcision is genital mutilation and that it's a practice that should be stopped immediately, but I don't think I should get a vote in the matter.

I think the only place that we (males) should have a say in it is voting to give women the right to decide, then it's all hands off, totally up to the woman herself.

[pocaracas]

If I remember correctly, blackout, there was a huge effort at the time by the "pro-lifers" to make people vote for the NO option. That's why it was such a close call.
I always felt amazed how you can have half the population (the males) plus another half of the remaining population (women too old to bear children) voting on a subject which doesn't concern them.
The mind boggling nature of a referendum in a democracy!

[Jackalope]

I always felt amazed how you can have half the population (the males) plus another half of the remaining population (women too old to bear children) voting on a subject which doesn't concern them.

Particularly when the subject is abortion, in a country that is overwhelmingly Catholic - though apparently, they aren't True™ Catholics.

[Dystopia]

Blackout, you can decide in your head all day long what's ethical, but when it comes to the act of actually going out and getting an abortion, the pregnant woman is the only one who should have the right to decide. I stand by that.

In a society where we've somehow decided that abortion should be up for a vote, I also hold the unpopular view that men shouldn't be allowed to vote on it. Would you want women voting on the legality of circumcision? I think circumcision is genital mutilation and that it's a practice that should be stopped immediately, but I don't think I should get a vote in the matter.

Firstly I completely agree with you on the first part - I was talking about the ethics of the act itself and not when to abort, that's up to all women

I completely disagree with you on the second matter by several reasons.
1 - Only allowing woman to vote would violate the principle of equality and the principle of democracy/free vote (since everyone gets the right to vote)
2 - By allowing this we would have to apply it by analogy to other situations, only gays would vote for gay rights, minorities for minorities rights, workers for workers rights. This is wrong because both parts have a saying in the matter. By only allowing women to vote they'd vote what benefits them more (same goes for other categories), this doesn't mean it would benefit society as a whole more. Imagine this - Low paid workers vote for minimum wage, they chose an extremely high wage because it benefits more and since employers can't vote they can't say NO to i (and a NO would be the right call from an economical perspective)
3 - Most politicians are males, only allowing females to vote would not account for sufficient people to make a legal vote for abortion
4 - Everybody should have a saying of what happens to society, not only a special category of people. By doing this we are completely dismissing the other parts arguments. Imagine minorities voted for affirmative actions. They would probably choose a lot of benefits that would be unbearable.

[Jackalope]

Surely you aren't suggesting that something which has been established as a protected Constitutional right ought to be subject to a popular vote?

[Dystopia]

I always felt amazed how you can have half the population (the males) plus another half of the remaining population (women too old to bear children) voting on a subject which doesn't concern them.

Particularly when the subject is abortion, in a country that is overwhelmingly Catholic - though apparently, they aren't True™ Catholics.

Like I already said, just because something doesn't concern you directly it doesn't mean you shouldn't have a saying in it, why can't I vote for gay rights if I'm not gay? It violates the principle of equality, just doesn't sound right to me, sounds more like discrimination. Why don't we allow immigrants to vote for immigrant benefits too? Because it would be unwise. Why don't workers vote for workers rights? Because they would want too many benefits. People always vote on what concerns or benefits them more, it's always been like that.

[rexbeccarox]

Firstly I completely agree with you on the first part - I was talking about the ethics of the act itself and not when to abort, that's up to all women

I completely disagree with you on the second matter by several reasons.
1 - Only allowing woman to vote would violate the principle of equality and the principle of democracy/free vote (since everyone gets the right to vote)
2 - By allowing this we would have to apply it by analogy to other situations, only gays would vote for gay rights, minorities for minorities rights, workers for workers rights. This is wrong because both parts have a saying in the matter. By only allowing women to vote they'd vote what benefits them more (same goes for other categories), this doesn't mean it would benefit society as a whole more. Imagine this - Low paid workers vote for minimum wage, they chose an extremely high wage because it benefits more and since employers can't vote they can't say NO to i (and a NO would be the right call from an economical perspective)
3 - Most politicians are males, only allowing females to vote would not account for sufficient people to make a legal vote for abortion
4 - Everybody should have a saying of what happens to society, not only a special category of people. By doing this we are completely dismissing the other parts arguments. Imagine minorities voted for affirmative actions. They would probably choose a lot of benefits that would be unbearable.

1. That's why it's screwed up that abortion has become something to be legislated. Abortion should no more be put to a vote than a man of consensual age choosing circumcision.

2. See above.

3. See above.

4. I completely disagree, being that abortion isn't a societal issue. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: what happens in my uterus is my business. Society should have no say at all.

[Dystopia]

1. That's why it's screwed up that abortion has become something to be legislated. Abortion should no more be put to a vote than a man of consensual age choosing circumcision.

2. See above.

3. See above.

4. I completely disagree, being that abortion isn't a societal issue. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: what happens in my uterus is my business. Society should have no say at all.

Ok to answer points 1, 2 and 3 if we put abortion as a constitutional right this can be fixed. Or at least a law would be enough, but not trough referendum. If white man vote for your right to abort would you mind it? I'm sure you wouldn't

Abortion is a social controversial issue whether you like it or not, denying this is unreasonable, if this was true all people would support it, but they don't, and some of these people are women that apparently don't like their uterus

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Surely you aren't suggesting that something which has been established as a protected Constitutional right ought to be subject to a popular vote?

Where is abortion a constitutional right? At most it can be included in the right to family planning, but I have my doubts.

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If I remember correctly, blackout, there was a huge effort at the time by the "pro-lifers" to make people vote for the NO option. That's why it was such a close call.
I always felt amazed how you can have half the population (the males) plus another half of the remaining population (women too old to bear children) voting on a subject which doesn't concern them.
The mind boggling nature of a referendum in a democracy!

I think both sides make a huge effort, in my opinion the pro choice campaign were a lot tougher and decisive since they were the ones fighting for legalization, at least from what I can recall. In Spain it was made illegal again by the new prime minister

[Jackalope]

why can't I vote for gay rights if I'm not gay?

Because they are *rights* and not privileges, and putting them at the whim of the electorate is precisely how we get tyranny of the majority.