Ceteloguing the Tricks Theists Play

[Longhorn]

So I was going to respond.....

you are aware that theory as a scientific term does not mean 'a guess', but 'a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation', right?

....but it's clear you're not taking me seriously, so it's a waste of time.

That's the dictionary definition Drich...

[Nope]

But one can look around and instantly see proof of atheists, teenagers, and people named Phillip. However, no god has ever been proven to exist,

That's not true at all is it.. Maybe you should say the 'proof' the there is a God is no longer accepted and what proof enough for thousands if not millions to be martyred for their beliefs is no longer accepted.

Other people have died for their faiths and yet I doubt that you use their deaths as proof that their faith is also true. A surprising number of Hindus have been martyred for not becoming Muslim. We have actually had this conversation in a much older thread and I pasted the names of a few non Christian martyrs. All those deaths prove is that people will die and kill for a lie

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Here's another annoying trick,

one might think sin is sin, but it turns out, it depends on who is doing it.  I realize it is damn hard to get today's active Christian to get very worked up about Mark 10:11 in regards to anyone, but you might think Rush Limbaugh might get at least a little static for being on wifey #4, but no sirree, nary a peep.  Slick Willy on the other hand, cheating on Hillary, OMG!!  He's an apostate of SATAN!!  Curiously, adultery is adultery, or so it should be, but it just depends on who's dick we are talking about being in the wrong woman.  Funny thing there.

We hear from time to time, Old Testament stuff is definitely passe, of course, excepting all the gay stuff.  But when we have New Testament Paul out of the blue endorsing something VERY Old Testament, like women shutting the fuck up in church, some of us are very, very confused when there isn't a peep of dissent from any quarter about Joyce Meyer or Tammy Faye Baker spouting off about salvation in their ministries.

Also amazing to me, is how fast everyone in the Christian sphere back in the 80s realized they better keep fucking quiet about Nancy Reagan consorting with a witch/court astrologer.  Seems like somebody might have spoken up, they sure aren't bashful about deriding Wiccans Satanists, and Atheists are they ?   But somebody perceived as being one of their own is suddenly exposed as letting a 'familiar spirit' guide the presidents schedule (over unsecured phone lines, BTW) and suddenly the very folks that should be witnessing the Word to Nancy to get her back on the right side of God are suddenly mute.

So, the intermittent nature of these Godly values, and it being super important to determine who can be rebuked and who cannot be, all add  another layer to that 'mystery of faith' don't it ??

I think that any public figure who calls himself/herself a Christian and is somewhat conservative will have followers who really don't give a damn if that person actually follows the bible. Christians aren't supposed to pray in public but Tebow's one kneed prayers were exactly the opposite of what Jesus taught. For awhile some Christians acted as though Tebow was the second coming of their Lord and Savior

[Rhondazvous]

And what is this proof of which you speak, Drich?

The same proof that a used car salesman offers when he tells you you have to buy the car before you can look under the hood or go for a test drive.  god is a used car salesman named Earnie Sunkist.

[Rhondazvous]

 I don't think that is happening in Christian-majority countries, but you can find examples of Islamic groups burning Christian children or censoring of free speech for Christians in non-Christian countries or even "socialist" ones

I agree. I'm also not a big fan of the argument some atheists make that "atheists never kill in the name of atheism". This is simply untrue, as far as I know. Even today, in places like China and North Korea, atheists persecute, silence, oppress, and even kill religious people for their belief. Now don't get me wrong, Christians are persecuting a lot in America, but it's also untrue that atheists are always peaceful. We shouldn't focus so much on the things that Christians have done in the past such as the Crusades and the Inquisition, but rather we should show them places in the Bible where followers of the Abrahamic god oppressed and committed acts of genocide.

I was agreeing with you then got confused in your last statements.

I agree that as humans no matter to which group we subscribe, we don't remember what we did to others but only what they did to us. Maybe theists can accuse atheists of everything atheists accuse them of.  Be that as it may and that is as may be. I believe in being honest. I believe in applying critical standards to my own arguments as ruthlessly as I would to the arguments of theists. But if they fight with me, they should not expect me to fight fair. When I fight, all that is honest is also fair.

Where I became confused is where you make a difference between seeing the atrocities of the Church during the middle ages and seeing the atrocities of the Abrahamic religions in the Bible. Both instances are pertinent, so why do we have to do one or the other? 

It's not even historical atrocities to which we are limited. When the earthquake hit Haiti, Pat Robinson claimed it was god's punishment. Same with hurricane Katrina. James Dobson, leader of the Focus on the Family ministry, urged his followers to pray for rain of "biblical proportions" to fall on the Democratic National Convention when Obama was first up for election. The past is the visible future.  The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salam witch hunts, all the atrocities in the Bible, give us more than a notion of what the world would be like if Christians regained power.   Christians in America can not be excused by pointing to the persecution of Christians in Iran.

[Drich]

Ok, I am back and will give this another shot. Drich, if I show you proof of something no one has ever seen before and was previously thought unfathomable, even though I show you evidence, there is plenty enough reasonable doubt to go around for everyone else, and their disbelief would be justified.

So? does Justified 'belief' then become truth? Or is truth a standard that stays the same despite what is believed? If in this case God offers 'proof' if one follows a prescribed path, yet people feel justified in what they believe even if they never sought the truth God offers, does what the feel justified then become true?

[FatAndFaithless]

If God wants a relationship with me so badly, he can come A/S/K me. If not, meh. I'll be fine.

[Drich]

So I was going to respond.....

....but it's clear you're not taking me seriously, so it's a waste of time.

That's the dictionary definition Drich...

Are you familiar with what a stegosaurus looks like? Based on what ever 'sciencetific' theory (A theory based on non-wild guessing) you wish to employ you should agree that a stegosaurus lived in the mid to late jurrassic period and has the basic shape as displayed in natural history museums all over the world.. Am I right?

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-to nope:
What 'other' religious leaders/founders died for thier faiths?

Not only Did Christ died but all the apstoles including Paul were martyred, (except john was dumped on a prision island and left for dead.)

[robvalue]

Yeah, there's another trick, in case it's not come up already.

If you're not experiencing God, it's your fault. You're not trying hard enough. Bad little atheist.

[Rhondazvous]

And what is this proof of which you speak, Drich?

God of course... What better proof of God is there than God?

Don't you just love this guy? Hats off!

Which god are we talking about here?
Yahweh?
Allah?
Zeus?
Apollo?
Elohim?
Olodumare?
Baal?
Hindu?

One of these gods is his own proof and winner takes all.

[vorlon13]

You left out their favorite God of all:


MAMMON.