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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 2:45 pm
(September 26, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: (September 25, 2012 at 9:36 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Yes, it would seem that every atheist has that arrow in his quiver: that every argument from authority is a logical fallacy.
Not every argument from authority is a logical fallacy. If the authority is an authority in the specific field for which it is being appealed to, the appeal can be sound. For instance: Einstein on relativity, sound. Einstein on religion, fallacy.
The argument from authority is only a fallacy when it's used in place of an argument. Quoting Einstein to back up an argument may be valid, if the quote is accurately represented, but using Einstein as the entire argument is fallacious.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 2:45 pm
kid 1: "Hey! You got appeal to authority on my appeal to popularity!"
kid 2: "And you got appeal to popularity on my appeal to authority!"
announcer: "That's right! Two terrible things that go worse together!"
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 2:47 pm
(September 26, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Atheists, on the other hand, assert that God does not exist, and then refuse to ever provide any proof for that assertion.
I think I've found one root of your problem, Blackrook. Please do better research into what atheism is.
My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends -
It gives a lovely light!
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 2:48 pm
(September 25, 2012 at 11:38 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Ha, ha, you guys complain about me pointing out that you act like uncivilized barbarians, and then you go and prove me right with blasphemous cartoons and, well, sorry you just lost the argument.
Have you considered rioting? I understand that blasphemy is so offensive it justifies murder of the most convenient member of the group the person who offended you belongs to.
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 2:53 pm
(This post was last modified: September 26, 2012 at 2:53 pm by Cyberman.)
The funny thing is, for us here in the UK there are no blasphemy laws anymore. Yet the world still turns.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 2:54 pm
(This post was last modified: September 26, 2012 at 2:56 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(September 25, 2012 at 11:47 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Wow, I'm glad I'm not an atheist. You people are totally wicked.
Well, we weren't responsible for the Crusades or the Inquisition or covering up the rape of children, but in our own small way, we try.
(September 25, 2012 at 11:50 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Wow, defensive much?
I asked because you know about transubstantiation.
If you want to keep secrets then go ahead.
But I quite freely opened up about where I was coming from, including the fact that I occasionally masturbate, which is a mortal sin according to the Catholic Church.
So how do I debate you if you will not open up to me?
I dare you to find a single person on this forum who doesn't already know about transubstantiation. We don't live in a cave.
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 2:59 pm
(September 26, 2012 at 2:54 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: (September 25, 2012 at 11:47 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Wow, I'm glad I'm not an atheist. You people are totally wicked.
Well, we weren't responsible for the Crusades or the Inquisition or covering up the rape of children, but in our own small way, we try.
(September 25, 2012 at 11:50 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Wow, defensive much?
I asked because you know about transubstantiation.
If you want to keep secrets then go ahead.
But I quite freely opened up about where I was coming from, including the fact that I occasionally masturbate, which is a mortal sin according to the Catholic Church.
So how do I debate you if you will not open up to me?
I dare you to find a single person on this forum who doesn't already know about transubstantiation. We don't live in a cave.
Ha, ha, there are a lot of CATHOLICS who don't know anything about transubstantiation so I wouldn't expect knowledge of this doctrine would be superior in a group of non-Catholics.
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 3:03 pm
(This post was last modified: September 26, 2012 at 3:10 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(September 26, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Thank you for actually responding to what I've said. People should learn from your example.
Too bad you weren't able to learn from his example that agnostics can also be theists or atheists.
(September 25, 2012 at 8:38 pm)Blackrook Wrote: I have a lot of respect for agnostics. They at least are honest in saying there is no way to prove that God does not exist.
We're pretty much all agnostics, so thanks for the respect.
(September 25, 2012 at 8:38 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Atheists, on the other hand, assert that God does not exist, and then refuse to ever provide any proof for that assertion.
Here's where you founder. Agnosticism is a position on knowledge, that you have no way of knowing if God exists (weak agnosticism) or that there is no way of knowing if God exists (strong agnosticism). Atheism and theism are positions on belief, that you don't believe God exists (weak or agnostic atheism) or that you believe God doesn't exist (strong or gnostic atheism). You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. Almost every atheist on this board is an agnostic atheist.
(September 25, 2012 at 8:38 pm)Blackrook Wrote: So its really impossible to argue with an atheist, because its a faith-based proposition that there is no God, not subject to critical analysis.
Except it isn't. It's just not finding other people's reasons for believing in God convincing.
(September 26, 2012 at 2:59 pm)Blackrook Wrote: Ha, ha, there are a lot of CATHOLICS who don't know anything about transubstantiation so I wouldn't expect knowledge of this doctrine would be superior in a group of non-Catholics.
An interesting factoid about atheists is that, on average, we know more about religion in general than most religious people (the Jews run a close second to us). We also, on average, know more about particular religions than most members of that particular religion, with a few exceptions. Catholics are not one of those exceptions. Evangelicals are, say what you want about them, they are more likely than the rest to actually read the Bible and go to church regularly.
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 3:23 pm
(September 26, 2012 at 2:59 pm)Blackrook Wrote: ...
Ha, ha, there are a lot of CATHOLICS who don't know anything about transubstantiation so I wouldn't expect knowledge of this doctrine would be superior in a group of non-Catholics.
Wow, he even has the maniacal laughter going on.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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RE: Professor's Proposition: Only Two Logical Choices
September 26, 2012 at 3:43 pm
(September 26, 2012 at 2:37 pm)Blackrook Wrote: I have a lot of respect for agnostics. They at least are honest in saying there is no way to prove that God does not exist. We go further than that; agnostics generally believe you can't prove God's existence either way. I go further still, and argue that it is impossible for humans to ever know (in an absolute sense) anything. Given that we exist entirely inside our own fallible minds, and experience everything through fallible (and often flawed) senses, we cannot trust our own judgements on the truth values of anything. Nor can we trust the judgement of others, given that we interact with them via our sense as well.
In short, it's all about what we believe.
Quote:Atheists, on the other hand, assert that God does not exist, and then refuse to ever provide any proof for that assertion.
Well, some atheists assert that, but they are in the minority (at least, according to polls I've seen, and polls on this site). Most simply state that they lack a belief in God, which is what I do. Hence my label "agnostic atheist". I'm an atheist since I don't believe in God, and I'm an agnostic since I don't believe the existence of God can be proved one way or the other.
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