No such thing as a "true" Christian

[Zen Badger]

---

Many of the so called saved church goers will say that they have received Christ into their lives just so they want feel out of place. Many church goers know how to answer the question when asked about salvation because they heard the answer many times before. The problem is they never really understood what receiveing Christ into their lives means. I've heard many people say that they thought they knew what salvation was and that they had received it, but later in their lives realized that they had been fooling themselves. I know this personally because I was one of them before I realized that one must have a heart change that comes along with salvation. There are also those who go to church because it is politically, personally,financially and ect. expedent for them and they will say they are saved. I've even heard people say they were saved because the church gave them a Bible. So many go to church with their ears closed and even more go with their hearts closed. Many want the benifits of salvation without the relationship with Christ, to much responsibility for them and it just dosen't work that way.

---

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL!!!

And who are you to say different??

Can you look into their minds to to see what they actually feel?

How do you know that in fact you are not a false christian and that they are true?

The stunning arrogance of people like you never ceases to amaze me.

And happy zombie jesus day to you too.

[Godscreated]

No judgement on my part rev.j, it is you who's judging others.

Right..you know who is going to spend eternity in paradise and who will be burning in hell forever, yet Iam the one being judgemental. Im open minded enough to say that your god may possibly exist, and if he does exist, then he does not need your PERMISSION to do anything godschild. Seems to be something you fundies have a hard time understanding about an all powerful god. He can do whatever the fuck he wants regardless of what you say. So if he thinks you are a dick for hanging out on atheist forums then he will surely punish you for it, or maybe he will forgive you. Maybe I made him laugh, so he forgave me. Maybe he will only put people in hell fore for just a few seconds, then forgive them once he see them writhe in pain.

Now..here is where you show how judgemental you are by stating you know exactly what god wants, and what god will do, and you know some who will be saved and others who will not...as if the majority of this board doesnt already sneer at you for being a fucking hypocrite.

Yes I know what Christ had to say about those who are church goers that believe they are saved when they are not. Christ said that we true christians would know them by their fruit (works). Paul also told many in the churches he started to beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing. Paul writes directly about some of these people. So your twisting of scripture gets you nowhere with me, your small mind just can not comprehend scriptures. You are not the all knowing one that you want others to believe you are. To bad you left the church, if you had stuck around you might have learned a thing or two. If that's why you left it was a petty reason.

See, there is another I really dont care about you, or other Baptists. They care more for the words of Paul than of Jesus. Quite frankly you are a Paulian, and they tend to be the most hateful and ignorant type of Gentiles in my opinion. I dont twsit scripture with you because a few weeks ago I told myself that I would never post another bible verse for you again, nor would I waste my time sorting through your crappy book of myths to prove it is a crappy book of myths. I left the church because of hateful shit fucks like you. Quite frankly I am offended that you would accuse me of thinking myself "all knowing" when I have the word "Absurdist" right next to my pic, and if you actually READ what absurdism was you would know it is the EXACT OPPOSITE of being a know it all jerk. In fact I clearly state that NOBODY will probably ever find an inherent meaning of life, or an inherent form of government. They can still try, but it will probably be fruitless. How..the FUCK... is that being a know it all? I left the baptist church because I grew tired and angry of its members acting the way you are acting right now, self righteous, judgemental, holier than thou pricks.

You see rev.j Christ and Paul both give us reason to watch out for those who are not saved and teach false doctrine, someone like you.

OMG, Im shaking in my fucking boots. Your imaginary Christ and Paul told you to watch out for people who might tell you that the bible is a book of myths? What a shock! A cult book advising its members to seperate themselves from non-cultists? Say it aint so?

Your commints here show how little you understand about scripture and yes Christ gave me the right to defend against people like you and those who would pretend to be christians. If you would pay attention you would see that I call myself a christian not a follower of Paul, I do however study what Paul has received from Christ so that I might become a better christian. Man you sure are a sensitive one aren't you.

---

---

Many of the so called saved church goers will say that they have received Christ into their lives just so they want feel out of place. Many church goers know how to answer the question when asked about salvation because they heard the answer many times before. The problem is they never really understood what receiveing Christ into their lives means. I've heard many people say that they thought they knew what salvation was and that they had received it, but later in their lives realized that they had been fooling themselves. I know this personally because I was one of them before I realized that one must have a heart change that comes along with salvation. There are also those who go to church because it is politically, personally,financially and ect. expedent for them and they will say they are saved. I've even heard people say they were saved because the church gave them a Bible. So many go to church with their ears closed and even more go with their hearts closed. Many want the benifits of salvation without the relationship with Christ, to much responsibility for them and it just dosen't work that way.

---

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL!!!

And who are you to say different??

Can you look into their minds to to see what they actually feel?

How do you know that in fact you are not a false christian and that they are true?

The stunning arrogance of people like you never ceases to amaze me.

And happy zombie jesus day to you too.

Go study the NT and you might discover the answer to your question. I really get tired of explaining the same things over and over.

[Zen Badger]

Go study the NT and you might discover the answer to your question. I really get tired of explaining the same things over and over.

Any bit of the bible you care to quote in support of your position I can reinterpret to mean the opposite, so that gets you nowhere.

[KichigaiNeko]

Happy Chocolate Festival!!! Oh and zombie jeebus say

---

No judgement on my part rev.j, it is you who's judging others.

Right..you know who is going to spend eternity in paradise and who will be burning in hell forever, yet Iam the one being judgemental. Im open minded enough to say that your god may possibly exist, and if he does exist, then he does not need your PERMISSION to do anything godschild. Seems to be something you fundies have a hard time understanding about an all powerful god. He can do whatever the fuck he wants regardless of what you say. So if he thinks you are a dick for hanging out on atheist forums then he will surely punish you for it, or maybe he will forgive you. Maybe I made him laugh, so he forgave me. Maybe he will only put people in hell fore for just a few seconds, then forgive them once he see them writhe in pain.

Now..here is where you show how judgemental you are by stating you know exactly what god wants, and what god will do, and you know some who will be saved and others who will not...as if the majority of this board doesnt already sneer at you for being a fucking hypocrite.

Yes I know what Christ had to say about those who are church goers that believe they are saved when they are not. Christ said that we true christians would know them by their fruit (works). Paul also told many in the churches he started to beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing. Paul writes directly about some of these people. So your twisting of scripture gets you nowhere with me, your small mind just can not comprehend scriptures. You are not the all knowing one that you want others to believe you are. To bad you left the church, if you had stuck around you might have learned a thing or two. If that's why you left it was a petty reason.

See, there is another I really dont care about you, or other Baptists. They care more for the words of Paul than of Jesus. Quite frankly you are a Paulian, and they tend to be the most hateful and ignorant type of Gentiles in my opinion. I dont twsit scripture with you because a few weeks ago I told myself that I would never post another bible verse for you again, nor would I waste my time sorting through your crappy book of myths to prove it is a crappy book of myths. I left the church because of hateful shit fucks like you. Quite frankly I am offended that you would accuse me of thinking myself "all knowing" when I have the word "Absurdist" right next to my pic, and if you actually READ what absurdism was you would know it is the EXACT OPPOSITE of being a know it all jerk. In fact I clearly state that NOBODY will probably ever find an inherent meaning of life, or an inherent form of government. They can still try, but it will probably be fruitless. How..the FUCK... is that being a know it all? I left the baptist church because I grew tired and angry of its members acting the way you are acting right now, self righteous, judgemental, holier than thou pricks.

You see rev.j Christ and Paul both give us reason to watch out for those who are not saved and teach false doctrine, someone like you.

OMG, Im shaking in my fucking boots. Your imaginary Christ and Paul told you to watch out for people who might tell you that the bible is a book of myths? What a shock! A cult book advising its members to seperate themselves from non-cultists? Say it aint so?

Your commints here show how little you understand about scripture and yes Christ gave me the right to defend against people like you and those who would pretend to be christians. If you would pay attention you would see that I call myself a christian not a follower of Paul, I do however study what Paul has received from Christ so that I might become a better christian. Man you sure are a sensitive one aren't you.

---

[fr0d0]

Emotion is unjust in a court of law, but not when it comes to personal forgiveness. Rationality does not always require lack of emotion. Say a man's daughter is raped. Is his hatred of the rapist irrational? No. Is his wish that the perpetrator be punished irrational? No, because rationally it serves the purpose of keeping others safe. Is his judgment clouded by his emotion? Yes, but it does not hinder his ability to see the situation clearly. In fact, he may see the situation more clearly than those who look at it without emotion, if such a thing is possible.

If you messed with any member of my family Shell I'd have clear purpose in dismembering you before feeding your entrails to maggots. That punishment might be disproportionate to the crime... and therefore unjust. I would then owe forgiveness. I''m not talking about a flawed legal system, but actual justice.

Take posting on this forum. It's never good to try to discuss something when you're emotionally engaged... why? because you too easily go too far... losing your rational perspective. It's ALWAYS better to be rational rather than emotional.

Besides, what about being forgiven simply for finding Jesus is just? Is that justice for the victim? Is it fair that some deity does the forgiving for them? While I find legal matters to be unjust at times, I find them far more just than the Christian way of handling things.

In finding Jesus, a person is seeking forgiveness. God always forgives, because God is ultimately just. People don't have to forgive you, and you'd need to make things right and pay your debts. In my mind... if your debt is your life then that's a debt.

All arguments from emotion Strongbad, which is a poor basis for justice. You may never forgive a personal injustice... that isn't to say that you shouldn't.

Really? And you dont use arguments from emotion? Are you some kind of computer? Are you inhuman? Exactly how can you come to a "faith" in a god through logic? I find it EXTREMELY hypocritical of a god believer pointing fingers and complaining about other people using arguments from emotion..its bad enough we have these mr.spock atheists on this site... As far as I am concerned, arguments from emotion are on the table.. Feel free to cry if I decide your emotional argument is nothing more than being a crybaby.

I don't think I ever use arguments from emotion, for the reason stated. I'm not in-human. We have to acknowledge that we're emotional animals. You can only come to a faith in God through logic. If something is so right logically you can have an emotional response to that.

[KichigaiNeko]

[attachment=480]

There is no Justice ...there is just DEATH

[downbeatplumb]

You can only come to a faith in God through logic.

I find this a curious statement.
God is not a logical idea.
It may be a convenient idea for some people but logical, no.

[fr0d0]

How badly you misunderstand it then mr Plumb.

[reverendjeremiah]

I don't think I ever use arguments from emotion, for the reason stated. I'm not in-human. We have to acknowledge that we're emotional animals. You can only come to a faith in God through logic. If something is so right logically you can have an emotional response to that.

*sigh* - let me break it down for you again.

Faith - belief that is not based on proof.
Logic - the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

Explain to me how Logic leads to faith. Explain to me why you would even NEED logic to go to faith, and not just merely go to faith and skip the logic?

Since when do you need inferenced proof (logic) to come to a conclusion to have a belief not based on proof (faith)

Do you not understand the words "mutually opposed"?

You just toss the word "logic" in because in reality you have a problem with faith not needing proof to validate its belief. You want to make statements of faith and claim they were acheived logically.

Why dont you just admit that you grasp faith and trust in it?

I have faith in my wife, and my children. I have faith in my vehicles (well, most of the time). Sometimes I have faith in my fellow citizen to do the right thing. Sometimes I have faith that humanity will grow better than what it is instead of returning to past mistakes. When I make contracts with the business owners, I do so in good faith.

Why cant you just say you have faith that you are right about god and be done with it instead of contributing to the ruining of the english language?

So essentially you are saying that YOU know MORE than a minister and/or priest?? What are you a witch docktor?

No, he's a fucking troll that has been tolerated for far to long in my opinion. If an atheist acted like this on a fundy site he would have been tossed out and permabanned within the 3rd post.

[fr0d0]

Faith - belief that is not based on proof.
Logic - the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

Faith. To quote Ryft, as he said it best, and that might be best understood by yourself:

When it comes to Christianity, 'faith' is defined by three separate but vitally connected aspects (especially from Luther and Melancthon onwards): notitia (informational content), assensus (intellectual assent), and fiducia (committed trust). So faith is the sum of having the information, being persuaded of its truthfulness, and trusting in it. To illustrate the three aspects: "Christ died for ours sins" (notitia); "I am persuaded that Christ died for our sins" (notitia + assensus); "I deeply commit in trust to Christ who I am persuaded died for our sins" (notitia + assensus + fiducia). Only the latter constitutes faith, on the Christian view.

Faith has to be based on logically sound information, to be convincing enough that a person should commit to it. How can a person have faith in something they know to be false? I would suggest that to be an impossibility.

I have no faith in anything without reason, and I'd suggest that you are the same. I don't have faith in my fellow citizens doing the right thing; I have faith in them acting like humans.

Do you have a problem with any of that?